Considering changing my forum handle to Rip Van Winkle

[user 338926]

Not really, but it's just amazing how fast things have changed in brewing. I moved in 2017 and really hadn't brewed since. I had some ingredients that came with the move and I think I did one batch or maybe two over those years but that was back in 2018. I cleaned up my gear and gave it another try either in late February or early March. It seems like every time I start reading a thread here there is some piece of equipment I've never heard of before. They seem to just sprout up out of the clear blue. It's like I woke up and missed the American Revolution or something.

A couple times now I've seen people talk about their kegs. Corny kegs at various capacities, and I just saw one guy talk about a 15 gallon one. I don't think they even existed 6 years ago but maybe I'm wrong. Of course there are the fermentation monitor gizmos that are either Wi-Fi or bluetooth. Equipment for yeast culturing is so easy to find it'll almost be offered as a combo buy with beer kits pretty soon. The all-in-one Brewing systems have completely gone off the rails. The early ones were sort of available in 17 but they were pretty simple and they were certainly not what I would call affordable as a alternative to conventional three bucket systems. Now you can get 5 gallon ones for the cost of a nice brewing kit. The number of yeast strains seems to be growing exponentially. I wouldn't say the types of malts has increased all that much but the choices of maltsters available to us certainly has. The amount of available electronic controls at affordable prices is pretty astonishing. I still use Beersmith and Bru'n Water, but I see there are other options available there too.

I can remember back to my very first experience with brewing. My older brother did it when I was a kid and I can recall helping him crushing grains with a rolling pin and roasting grain on baking sheets. Not in that order as I recall. Now I get all grain kits pre-milled for no extra charge. Of course back then there were actually local homebrew stores where now they are a thing of the past. It is not understated to say there has been a profound change in this industry over 6 years.

 

[SonomaBrewer]

It's been a rapid period of technological progress for sure. But I'm still waiting for artificial intelligence to do my brew day cleaning!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It is not understated to say there has beena profound change in this industry over 6 years.

To me, much of what you mention looks like engineers using "brewing science" to make products that people (hopefully) want.

 

[bellhp]

What you say is true , BUT I just got back into brewing from a two decades long pause . The only changes to my brewing equipment is this computer and a grain bag . I have enjoyed talking beer and recipes and techniques on this site but could do without it for sure .
I now brew all grain and mash in a bag but those are not exactly groundbreaking developments either . Basically you just need a brewpot and a carboy or bucket to make good beer . If I had the money to burn I would get more gadgets but my equipment has not changed since the 90's and I doubt it will . I haven't even replaced the hydrometer that I broke two batches ago !

 

[user 338926]

What you say is true , BUT I just got back into brewing from a two decades long pause . The only changes to my brewing equipment is this computer and a grain bag . I have enjoyed talking beer and recipes and techniques on this site but could do without it for sure .
I now brew all grain and mash in a bag but those are not exactly groundbreaking developments either . Basically you just need a brewpot and a carboy or bucket to make good beer . If I had the money to burn I would get more gadgets but my equipment has not changed since the 90's and I doubt it will . I haven't even replaced the hydrometer that I broke two batches ago !

I bought a new Brew Kettle on closeout at what I considered a really good deal. Didn't really need that, but I wanted a second Kettle for doing a decoction mash. I'm not sure I really needed the second kettle as I really don't have a second burner, but here it sits.. I also purchased a tank for beer gas and a Nitro faucet but neither of those is operational yet. Somebody should probably take my credit card away. LOL

My Kegerator had died years back and I could either build a new one from a chest freezer or purchase one and I chose the latter. I don't need to tell you that cranked up my expenditure pretty well. It is much nicer on my no-longer-OEM-back to use a Kegerator with a door rather than one with a lid. Even still, just beer ingredients alone since February are well in the four figures. I just looked and since 2/23 I've ordered 11 times from more beer alone. Anybody who says it's cheaper to make your own beer is delusional. But to be fair there is a lot of ingredients here to make a lot of beer. As long as I stop screwing up and making Drano I'll be fine.

It's been a rapid period of technological progress for sure. But I'm still waiting for artificial intelligence to do my brew day cleaning!

They do have CIP systems you know. I think those were readily available years ago. Most especially for the commercial market. But now there's a hundred part numbers you can choose from.

 

[bellhp]

Anybody who says it's cheaper to make your own beer is delusional.

Well , call me delusional .

 

[user 338926]

Well , call me delusional .

I always wonder how people account for the costs. Not that I'm saying anybody has to, but personally, I'm pretty honest with myself about actual spending. I do not just consider the ingredients cost and as long as I ignore all other costs, I now say homemade beer is cheaper. No, I actually add up everything. I can say in my own case, I already owned all the equipment to make beer before I got back into it. And just for curiosity, I just added up my purchases on more beer right now. I could purchase beer for several years on what I've spent there since February 23rd. Never mind what I've spent at Northern brewer, ebay, amazon, the local hardware store, propane, water and electric, and so forth.

I can buy five cases of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale just for the money I'm looking to spend on a yeast culturing kit. I could buy another five or maybe six, for the money I spent on a Nitro faucet, a 20cf Nitro tank, and I haven't even filled it with gas yet. I was given the regulator free, and we're not even discussing tubing and fittings yet. I paid my Fire Equipment Company something like 62 or $63 to recertify my CO2 tank and refill it. I have another one that needs recertified and refilled.


If saving money was genuinely a condition of me brewing, I wouldn't be brewing.

 

[MaxStout]

I've watched all the new gear enter the market, but I'm still kind of a brewing Neanderthal, and brew much the way I have for years. I still bottle; not that I wouldn't enjoy kegging, but I don't want to open that can of worms now. Maybe some day.

I do enjoy the greater selection of dry yeasts now. I can't remember the last time I used liquid. I have a stir plate and flasks, gathering dust.

I try to incorporate some LODO elements, though with bottling, I'm kind of behind the 8-ball. Still, I've managed to brew better beer.

I think my biggest change has been upgrading from glass carboys to Brew Buckets, though that was 6 or 7 years ago. Easier to handle and much safer. I do miss watching the action inside.

It's fun to see the new gadgetry and ingredients touted online and in publications like Zymurgy. Some of it looks practical, but others seem like expensive ways of just doing the same thing. I like new technology, but it has to make my process better in some way. The benefit/cost ratio has to be greater than 1.

In the future, I think the change that will face me will be when I get too old to do all the heavy lifting. I envision going eBIAB, with pumps to move wort. Perhaps build some kind of front-loading ferm chamber, so no more lifting in and out of a chest freezer. Or switch to a small conical with temp control. Kegging will probably come into play then.

 

[passedpawn]

I've watched all the new gear enter the market, but I'm still kind of a brewing Neanderthal, and brew much the way I have for years. I still bottle; not that I wouldn't enjoy kegging, but I don't want to open that can of worms now. Maybe some day.

I do enjoy the greater selection of dry yeasts now. I can't remember the last time I used liquid. I have a stir plate and flasks, gathering dust.

I try to incorporate some LODO elements, though with bottling, I'm kind of behind the 8-ball. Still, I've managed to brew better beer.

I think my biggest change has been upgrading from glass carboys to Brew Buckets, though that was 6 or 7 years ago. Easier to handle and much safer. I do miss watching the action inside.

It's fun to see the new gadgetry and ingredients touted online and in publications like Zymurgy. Some of it looks practical, but others seem like expensive ways of just doing the same thing. I like new technology, but it has to make my process better in some way. The benefit/cost ratio has to be greater than 1.

In the future, I think the change that will face me will be when I get too old to do all the heavy lifting. I envision going eBIAB, with pumps to move wort. Perhaps build some kind of front-loading ferm chamber, so no more lifting in and out of a chest freezer. Or switch to a small conical with temp control. Kegging will probably come into play then.

Agree with all there. My back doesn't like cleaning the keggles any longer, so I went with one of the All In Ones that I can clean in place. That is pretty awesome. When my massive chest freezer in the garage dies, I'm going to replace with an upright with a door.

Regarding saving money, after enough years of using the same equipment, I'm sure I was saving money. But with my recent gadget purchases, maybe not so much haha. It's a hobby, I'm not worried about it.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Well , call me delusional .

Me, too. I just brewed the 51st batch in a stock pot I already owned fitted with a $35 bag. Throw in a bucket fermenter or three, a siphon, refractometer, inkbird for the already-owned spare freezer, etc., I'm still brewing beer less expensively than I can purchase it. Especially as I brew imported styles.

 

[T Murph]

Lol, @4Mesh if cheep beer is what we wanted we would just drink pud lite. It is a rule to never disclose the cost of your investment, at least that is what I tell my wife. She is convinced that I am investing in our future. And that installing a commercial exhaust hood with a vent through the wall is absolutely necessary for our survival. But seriously it is all relative. It ain't about cheep beer. It's about great beer and the knowledge of how to do it and the ability to do it. Homebrewing is one of the most rewarding hobbies I can think of. Glad you found your way back. Good luck and happy brewing.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I try to incorporate some LODO elements, though with bottling, I'm kind of behind the 8-ball. Still, I've managed to brew better beer.

 

[bellhp]

Nobody fishes to save money ... it's cheaper to buy fish .

Hold my beer!

 

[MaxStout]

Nobody fishes to save money ... it's cheaper to buy fish .
View attachment 819528Hold my beer!
View attachment 819530

My favorite analogy when someone asks the inevitable, dumb question about brewing.

I also enjoy woodworking. But no one ever asks why I don't just buy furniture in the store.

 

[bellhp]

Yes , good analogy .
I don't disagree with 4Mesh in the spirit of the original post . He is absolutely correct , and it's easy to get carried away .
And I'm just poking fun , but I'm on a budget and If I couldn't brew my beer cheaper than buying it ( I don't buy cheap beer... only the good stuff ) I wouldn't do it right now . I've got too many other expensive hobbies and beer is just lubricant for those.

 

[user 338926]

@Maxtout

We sound eerily similar. Especially the part about wanting to see some > 1:1 return on new trinkets. My trouble is, once I decide to try something, and this is especially bad if it actually works, I don't seem to know where to stop. You mention considering kegging? I just went upstairs to the lunch room here at work, there's 7 corny kegs and 2 Sanke kegs up there.... There's 11 more at my house...

That said, I also have loads of bottles for overrun, when have beers I want to keep a long time but don't have space for in kegs.... But I bottle out of kegs, and I hate to say this to ya, but you should consider that. Counterpressure filling is vastly superior for long term storage. But as with everything... more $
@passwedpawn
I went the 21 cu ft upright freezer route about a decade ago. I should post a pic of that tonight. I've got a 15G conical in there along with one big mouth bubbler at the moment. it'll hold 2, along with a co2 tank and a keg for dispensing if I need space for a big family event or something.

@T Murph just hope someone gets more than $0.10 on the $ out of my gear when I'm dead. I know my family will be searching all nooks and crannies for aged stouts and porters, and more than happy to toast my demise if they find any! Lol.
@BrewnWKopperKat Great graphic!

@MaxStout Please don't mention woodworking... I've lived for most of my life in the birth-town of Grizzly Imports. And had family that worked there both in the office and in the warehouse. I hesitate to think about how many times I would go there and by some incredible stroke of luck, they would always seem to find a scratch-n-dent of whatever I was looking for... Lol.

Yes , good analogy .
I don't disagree with 4Mesh in the spirit of the original post . He is absolutely correct , and it's easy to get carried away .
And I'm just poking fun , but I'm on a budget and If I couldn't brew my beer cheaper than buying it ( I don't buy cheap beer... only the good stuff ) I wouldn't do it right now . I've got too many other expensive hobbies and beer is just lubricant for those.

I'm just joking around also, believe me I'm the last guy who will ever question what someone else does with their discretionary spending. My trouble with this gig is, I also have too many other interests that got out of control...

(edit )Hey, it's time to shut things off and go home for a beer!

 

[user 338926]

@passedpawn
Here's a pic of that upright freezer I mentioned. I built a rack with an open front for holding the conical fermenter inside of it, I made the diameter such that the fermentation lock would just barely fit at the ceiling. The balance of floor space I can do with what I wish and the Shelf itself stores quite a lot of stuff when I need. I even put a space heater inside of it for temp controlled fermentation in the winter time because it's out in my garage that I do not heat all the time. When I did my February and March brews I did that.

(Edit) I took a better picture, not that I could have taken one that was any worse.

 

[T Murph]

@passedpawn
Here's a pic of that upright freezer I mentioned. I built a rack with an open front for holding the conical fermenter inside of it, I made the diameter such that the fermentation lock would just barely fit at the ceiling. The balance of floor space I can do with what I wish and the Shelf itself stores quite a lot of stuff when I need. I even put a space heater inside of it for temp controlled fermentation in the winter time because it's out in my garage that I do not heat all the time. When I did my February and March brews I did that.

View attachment 819566

That is way cool. Have you considered using a spunding valve instead of an air lock. You would be able to capture Co2 and save some space at the top by using a blow off jug.

 

[user 338926]

That is way cool. Have you considered using a spunding valve instead of an air lock. You would be able to capture Co2 and save some space at the top by using a blow off jug.

Well I never gave it a thought when I put this thing together. To be honest, I had never heard of a spunding valve until just recently looking at all the newfangled gizmos there are for brewing. To genuinely save any space I would have to remake the Shelf. While the picture doesn't show it, it is actually made with pins that fit into the holes in the sidewalls of the freezer for the original shelves. This way I wasn't drilling or cutting, and the Shelf is not only quite solid but removable if I need to clean. They don't give me that many options for where to put the thing. You can sort of see how far apart the holes are in the photo. I know my photo is terrible. I don't really need the extra space so, I can just use a spunding valve I suppose. Nothing says I have to remake the shelf.

 

[madscientist451]

I can buy five cases of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale just for the money I'm looking to spend on a yeast culturing kit. I could buy another five or maybe six, for the money I spent on a Nitro faucet, a 20cf Nitro tank, and I haven't even filled it with gas yet. I was given the regulator free, and we're not even discussing tubing and fittings yet. I paid my Fire Equipment Company something like 62 or $63 to recertify my CO2 tank and refill it. I have another one that needs recertified and refilled.


If saving money was genuinely a condition of me brewing, I wouldn't be brewing.

You don't need a yeast culturing kit, or a Nitro faucet and if you just exchange your Co2 tanks instead of re-filling its likely cheaper.
Once you figure out where and how to buy grain and hops, and how to re-use your yeast, you can brew pretty decent beer for something like $.50 a 12 oz bottle, (or less) compared to $2/12oz and higher at the store. So that doesn't include my time, but I don't include my labor costs when figuring out if any of my other hobbies are worth doing.

 

[Dland]

In dollars I'm saving about $3K a year in beer cost compared to when I supplied my considerable thirst for very good beer from commercial market. And I could not even get the very best beer in the styles I like where I am.

I made hot side rig out of old half kegs, had a bunch of cornie kegs from when I brewed in '90's, run cone to cone and am on my 11th 10 gallon batch on two packs of S-189 for yeast. I don't skimp on quality malted grain, but do buy in quantity. Hops are cheep and I'm my production of those is ramping up..

And as they say, "Bob's your uncle" not sure what that means, but friends of mine say it whenever a problem is solved. After many many batches and active experimentation, I'm brewing exactly what I want to drink.

If I were to count in my time brewing as off time doing hobby, not so expensive. If I were to charge myself what I charge at work per hour, I'd probably still be ahead, but it would be close.

PS. shift into italics has no meaning, I probably hit some key on this keyboard....

 

[madscientist451]

In dollars I'm saving about $3K a year in beer cost compared to when I supplied my considerable thirst for very good beer from commercial market.

That seems like a lot of beer? So you're saving about $250 a month?

I'm brewing exactly what I want to drink.

Yeah, me too, but what are some of your favorites?

 

[T Murph]

Growing your own hops saves a bunch also. I just added 5 more varieties this year to my hop garden. I now have 11 varieties. I prefer cones over pellets. Wort is much clearer coming out of the BK and its nice to go to the freezer and grab a bag of home grown and processed hops to finish a brew.

 

[Dland]

That seems like a lot of beer? So you're saving about $250 a month?

Yeah, me too, but what are some of your favorites?

Yeah, easy. Back in '17 when I started brewing again was getting two cases delivered Carlsberg elephant a week for about $90. This does not even include various craft brews I picked up regularly. I do share with friends, but am responsible for much of the consumption.

I tend to like lagers and clear ales, and mostly on the drier side, higher ABV and plenty of flavor.

 

[user 338926]

You don't need a yeast culturing kit, or a Nitro faucet and if you just exchange your Co2 tanks instead of re-filling its likely cheaper.
Once you figure out where and how to buy grain and hops, and how to re-use your yeast, you can brew pretty decent beer for something like $.50 a 12 oz bottle, (or less) compared to $2/12oz and higher at the store. So that doesn't include my time, but I don't include my labor costs when figuring out if any of my other hobbies are worth doing.

I bought all my tanks new and I prefer new tanks. I don't really want the tanks everybody else beat the snot out of. But that is definitely a choice. As for the Nitro faucet and that tank, I'm afraid that ship has sailed. They are already here and they are not going back.

I do reuse my yeast when I can. I don't like to let it get too old or too many generations. I don't have any local options for buying grains so I have to pay shipping on that which makes a little bit more money. As for hops, I guess it is what it is.

In dollars I'm saving about $3K a year in beer cost compared to when I supplied my considerable thirst for very good beer from commercial market. And I could not even get the very best beer in the styles I like where I am.

My one local distributor is a pretty big outfit here in the Northeast. They've got a pretty good selection and if a guy wants something special they will typically just get it. So I never had trouble finding stuff I wanted. And they were also the most affordable place around. My biggest dislike for commercial Brew isn't so much the price, it's the alcohol level. Everything seems to be made like you're going to use it for lantern fuel or something. That sort of stuff has simply lost its appeal with me.

Growing your own hops saves a bunch also. I just added 5 more varieties this year to my hop garden. I now have 11 varieties. I prefer cones over pellets. Wort is much clearer coming out of the BK and its nice to go to the freezer and grab a bag of home grown and processed hops to finish a brew.

I moved off my farm in 2017 and have not since grown any hops. At that time I was growing some but my brother decided he wanted to put in an entire Hop Yard so he spent a couple years putting in thousands of plants all with the trellis 18 ft high, the telescoping lift equipment for maintenance and hanging twine. He spent a couple months at my shop building a hop picking machine. I don't know if he expected I was going to want a second business but I was plenty busy with the one I've got. I now live 20 miles away and rarely even set foot on the property. But I will say growing hops is a lot of fun and you do get some pretty nice hops. You will be hard-pressed to get any any fresher. And there is something to be said for green hop ipas. I couldn't even tell you what he's been doing with the Hop yard. Last I heard he had some people from Penn State Consulting on all sorts of things like soil control and such. I just want to drink a beer. LOL

 

[malchizedec]

I always wonder how people account for the costs. Not that I'm saying anybody has to, but personally, I'm pretty honest with myself about actual spending. I do not just consider the ingredients cost and as long as I ignore all other costs, I now say homemade beer is cheaper. No, I actually add up everything. I can say in my own case, I already owned all the equipment to make beer before I got back into it. And just for curiosity, I just added up my purchases on more beer right now. I could purchase beer for several years on what I've spent there since February 23rd. Never mind what I've spent at Northern brewer, ebay, amazon, the local hardware store, propane, water and electric, and so forth.

I can buy five cases of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale just for the money I'm looking to spend on a yeast culturing kit. I could buy another five or maybe six, for the money I spent on a Nitro faucet, a 20cf Nitro tank, and I haven't even filled it with gas yet. I was given the regulator free, and we're not even discussing tubing and fittings yet. I paid my Fire Equipment Company something like 62 or $63 to recertify my CO2 tank and refill it. I have another one that needs recertified and refilled.


If saving money was genuinely a condition of me brewing, I wouldn't be brewing.

If I had to do a cost value analysis of my brewing hobby I'd need to sell it all and take up a cheap hobby like........ building spaceships.


I love the tech, tinkering AND recipie side of the hobby, it's not about the cost. Luckily I have a wife who doesn't mind a room dedicated to my madness.

 

[bwible]

I always wonder how people account for the costs. Not that I'm saying anybody has to, but personally, I'm pretty honest with myself about actual spending. I do not just consider the ingredients cost and as long as I ignore all other costs, I now say homemade beer is cheaper. No, I actually add up everything. I can say in my own case, I already owned all the equipment to make beer before I got back into it. And just for curiosity, I just added up my purchases on more beer right now. I could purchase beer for several years on what I've spent there since February 23rd. Never mind what I've spent at Northern brewer, ebay, amazon, the local hardware store, propane, water and electric, and so forth.

I can buy five cases of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale just for the money I'm looking to spend on a yeast culturing kit. I could buy another five or maybe six, for the money I spent on a Nitro faucet, a 20cf Nitro tank, and I haven't even filled it with gas yet. I was given the regulator free, and we're not even discussing tubing and fittings yet. I paid my Fire Equipment Company something like 62 or $63 to recertify my CO2 tank and refill it. I have another one that needs recertified and refilled.


If saving money was genuinely a condition of me brewing, I wouldn't be brewing.

Really depends on what you brew. None of us can brew macro lagers for what we can buy them for, figuring cost of ingredients, amortizing equipment, and figuring your time and labor. Hell liquid yeast costs $10 now, plus shipping and a freezer pack, etc and even if you use it 3 times thats still $4 per just for yeast. Some hops are $3 an ounce and how many ounces are we using in a batch. A 30 pack of most macros is $18.99. I got a 30 pack of Strohs recently for $9.99.

Yeah I like to brew lagers and I started doing it initially for the challenge to prove I can. But I don’t kid myself into believing I can brew these beers better or cheaper than they can.

Now when you start looking at buying sixtel kegs from your distributor you’ll see that a sixtel of even a cheaper beer like Landshark lager is $75. Some ipas and other stuff are over $100 for a sixtel and that doesn’t include the keg deposit. Now you can compete if you look at it that way.

When you start talking high gravity stuff like barelywines and 11% RIS you’ll find these are $100 or more a case. They sell these beers in 4 packs for $15. These beers definitely pay to brew yourself. I found it really pays to brew high gravity stuff vs buying it and also to brew the stuff you can’t buy. English bitters and milds are not found where I live, or are very few and far between. Scottish ales. Sometimes I like to try to clone various commercial beers as a challenge for fun.

 

[malchizedec]

Following on from bwible's comment.

I especially like brewing drinks that can't be purchased from a store... historical brews or silly experiments. Different ingredients: apples, oranges, bananas, wheat, barley, honey, crunchy nutt cornflakes....

Fermenting has so many directions to play with.

 

[Jaybird]

Were taking 4 basic ingredients and making magic happen with them.. The gear and the process may change but the end result remains the same.

Cheers
Jay

 

[BeerHolic]

I actually keep track of all cost and the brewing app I developed works out the cost per liter for every batch I brew.
In Match 2018 I purchased 2 x 50L converted kegs, one a mash tun the other a brew kettle, wort chiller and vacuum sealer.
Next major cost November 2022, materials for building keezer and 2 corney kegs, taps etc.
I should be breaking even by year end.
But yeah like the man said about fishing.....

 

[beren]

My favorite analogy when someone asks the inevitable, dumb question about brewing.

I also enjoy woodworking. But no one ever asks why I don't just buy furniture in the store.

Bad one. I’ve seen handmade dressers at $10k with a nice inlay… far cheaper to make lol.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Anybody who says it's cheaper to make your own beer is delusional.

I call this hobby "the most expensive way to get cheap beer".