3 ounce total in a cf10? Even with 5 gallons (i assume 10) i would say use the racking arm. Throw thoose boys in commando!!! That way you will get maximim extraction and can still draw clear beer.
My $0.02.
Spike Conical- observations and best practices
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3 ounce total in a cf10? Even with 5 gallons (i assume 10) i would say use the racking arm. Throw thoose boys in commando!!! That way you will get maximim extraction and can still draw clear beer.
My $0.02.
Just noticed “below the site glass is a racking arm” and I don’t understand what you are doing. Can you explain or add a pic showing the configuration?
and did any more hops drop in there yet? Thinking they might of formed some sort of dam up in the cone but not sure how.
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CodeSection
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I'm late to this discussion, but your picture shows the racking arm pointed down into the hops/trub. Is there a reason why you are not rotating the racking arm up until you get clear beer before racking?
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I did get beer before i started racking into the keg, with this style "NEIPA" being opaque its hard to tell if there is yeast being mixed in. The picture in post 1717 shows the site glass with beer in the upper portion of the site glass. I assumed everything above/below the racking arm was beer because i could see it. It wasn't until i removed the lid that i could see the arm was still surrounded by hops/trub. I have always been hesitant to turn the racking arm. I have brewed prob 6 Neipa's in the last 3 months, nothing clear with this style. Maybe im not crashing cold enough for long enough, but i did 48 hours at 45-48deg.
It seems to me the bottom portion of the conical where it's angled is an area that can still build up trub/hops/debris regardless of what the site glass is showing. That's my take away from all of this.
It seems to me the bottom portion of the conical where it's angled is an area that can still build up trub/hops/debris regardless of what the site glass is showing. That's my take away from all of this.
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when you dump how much are you opening your valve? if you go to fast the beer can punch a hole through the trub leaving a bunch on the cone. try to go as slow as possible.
Right -- a layer of hops and trub (I guess lots of yeast since this was NEIPA) at the bottom, blow through and you get beer in the sight glass with still lots of hops and trub above. That seems to be what happened here.
My question is how slow can you really go? Dumping hops I just don't get much movement at 1 click open on the butterfly valve. Like no movement at all. Two clicks maybe a but of a sputter then it stops. I keep inching up and then all of a sudden its flowing fast and I am sure has punched through. I'm sure there is technique I will eventually master but I am struggling with same issue.
yeah i suppose easier said then done, i have the same issue with neipa's sometimes once in punches through ill shut the valve and come back an hour later and try it again. i do typically start with my racking arm up or at an upward angle. always nervous when i loosen that clamp but never had an issue. goodluck mastering the art of the dump, haha.
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Same here! I open maybe a 1/4 of the way and usually very little movement. This was the first time i used co2 to blow the hops back into suspension. I wonder if that is some of my issue. After about 15 neipa's i have come along way. The last two i had zero clogs.
CodeSection
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Perhaps following Spike's suggestion (https://spikebrewing.freshdesk.com/...es/35000043191-positioning-of-the-racking-arm) may be helpful along with using a teflon gasket that is much easier to turn (https://www.morebeer.com/products/forgefit-triclamp-gasket-teflon-15.html).
I just picked up that exact teflon tc gasket to help with rotating the racking arm after seeing it suggested in this thread. The racking arm can be a B* to turn. I always tighten the clamps down pretty good though, especially when under pressure. I'll report back on this next batch.
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Thanks, I may give this a try. Still not sure how you see yeast in a already hazy beer though.
CodeSection
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I only brew 10 gallon batches with my CF10. I have never had one drop of beer leak when rotating the racking arm....not one drop. It didn't matter whether I was using the silicone or teflon gasket. The teflon gasket just makes it easier as it is a smoother, non-sticking rotation.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
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awoitte
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Just a thought....
When this thread took off I spent a ton of time going through each page, reading every post, and they all seemed very interesting and relevant. I learned a great deal of knowledge about this product, conicals, and general brewing practices.
Is it possible/popular by demand to possibly make the first several posts of this (what seems like will be an ever increasing/long) thread contain either links to main topics or actual how-to descriptions of some of the main talking points?
Ex.
The search function works but a table of contents would save a lot of searching/time. It would avoid a lot of people asking the same questions that I'm not excluding myself from doing on occasion.
Also would point out that its probably for someone else with more domain knowledge in both this forum and brewing in general to take charge, but wanted to get it out there since this is a popular one and I'd like to see everyone's efforts utilized to the fullest
Cheers!
When this thread took off I spent a ton of time going through each page, reading every post, and they all seemed very interesting and relevant. I learned a great deal of knowledge about this product, conicals, and general brewing practices.
Is it possible/popular by demand to possibly make the first several posts of this (what seems like will be an ever increasing/long) thread contain either links to main topics or actual how-to descriptions of some of the main talking points?
Ex.
The search function works but a table of contents would save a lot of searching/time. It would avoid a lot of people asking the same questions that I'm not excluding myself from doing on occasion.
Also would point out that its probably for someone else with more domain knowledge in both this forum and brewing in general to take charge, but wanted to get it out there since this is a popular one and I'd like to see everyone's efforts utilized to the fullest
Cheers!
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Sorry, meant to say 6 ounces. This is a 10 gallon batch. For some reason I was thinking in 5 gallons.
Commando it is then!
Just a thought....
When this thread took off I spent a ton of time going through each page, reading every post, and they all seemed very interesting and relevant. I learned a great deal of knowledge about this product, conicals, and general brewing practices.
Is it possible/popular by demand to possibly make the first several posts of this (what seems like will be an ever increasing/long) thread contain either links to main topics or actual how-to descriptions of some of the main talking points?
Ex.
The search function works but a table of contents would save a lot of searching/time. It would avoid a lot of people asking the same questions that I'm not excluding myself from doing on occasion.
Also would point out that its probably for someone else with more domain knowledge in both this forum and brewing in general to take charge, but wanted to get it out there since this is a popular one and I'd like to see everyone's efforts utilized to the fullest
Cheers!
I think the old software we had would let you search within a thread, forum section, or the whole entire bulletin board in general. That's one thing I miss about it.
Maybe, searching for "cold crashing Spike conical" might filter your results better than say "Spike conical" would. I've also used Google in addition to the search engine here to see if I can find what I am looking for and/or find it quicker. Hope this helps.
I have found that I can control flow better by pinching the silicon tubing attached to the attached to the reducer that I use to dump the hops and trub into a bucket. I crack the valve and pinch the hose at the same time. After racking the cone, it is usually free of debris.
Another question.
For those with the "barebones" conical, how do you go about collecting your yeast and/or dumping the trub? This is for those who have not added accessories like a yeast brink, etc, to make it easier.
The first time I used mine, I just dumped the yeast (US-05) into a pail until I saw clear beer. Then I hooked up a 1.5" triclover/mfl adapter with a MFL/beer line ball lock jumper, opened that port until clear beer ran. Then I racked to my kegs (using a scale for the kegs). So far no problems.
This is my 3rd batch in my CF10. The last batch (2nd), I dry-hopped using a hop bag, but it hung up on the racking arm giving me transferring issues. This time I just dry-hopped commando style. Which brings up my 2nd question...
The 2" butterfly valve....Do you guys prefer it above or below the 90 degree elbow? The last time, it was below the elbow, but now I went with putting it before the elbow. My thinking is if dumping horizontally into another vessel becomes an issue, I can disconnect the elbow and dump vertically into a collection vessel.
I'm not able to cold crash too, so take that into account.
For those with the "barebones" conical, how do you go about collecting your yeast and/or dumping the trub? This is for those who have not added accessories like a yeast brink, etc, to make it easier.
The first time I used mine, I just dumped the yeast (US-05) into a pail until I saw clear beer. Then I hooked up a 1.5" triclover/mfl adapter with a MFL/beer line ball lock jumper, opened that port until clear beer ran. Then I racked to my kegs (using a scale for the kegs). So far no problems.
This is my 3rd batch in my CF10. The last batch (2nd), I dry-hopped using a hop bag, but it hung up on the racking arm giving me transferring issues. This time I just dry-hopped commando style. Which brings up my 2nd question...
The 2" butterfly valve....Do you guys prefer it above or below the 90 degree elbow? The last time, it was below the elbow, but now I went with putting it before the elbow. My thinking is if dumping horizontally into another vessel becomes an issue, I can disconnect the elbow and dump vertically into a collection vessel.
I'm not able to cold crash too, so take that into account.
I do what @Sbe2 said...2" TC to hose barb or camlock (have both now) then 2' of silicon hose. I harvest yeast into a sanitized mason jar. Sure not as sanitary as an actual yeast brink but seems to do the job. I also have a bucket ready and first cup or so goes into the bucket, then fill the jar with clean yeast, then dump rest into bucket until I start seeing beer.
So far I've only done it with the elbow between the CF and the valve. I hope you will let us know how your current trial works I've thought it might be better for dry hopping as I find all my dry hop pellets just sink right down into the plumbing and then expand in there so have very little exposure to the beer.
I've done 9 batches since getting my CF15 and every time seems to get easier. I have added a sight glass and leg extensions which help. Also a package scale makes filling kegs so much easier.
Plus one to the hose.... I already had some 1.5" accessories, so I bought a 1.5" to 2" adapter... so great, because I can use it both ways on two different conicals, so I do not have to buy all new stuff.
I did just order a sight glass, a tee, and other misc., items from the Amazon (about 50% off of home brew supply store prices!) and I am excited to use the sight glass. I think with my setup I can use it for reduced oxygen dry hopping, then clean & sanitize, then use it down below for yeast/ trub dumps.
I think Eric nailed it up above- every time you use your conical, you will tweak & improve your technique, and really appreciate all you can do with it.
Thanks guys! I'll keep you all posted. Hoping to keg this batch Monday or Tuesday.
flyerwire
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hi all, question for everyone who has been using the CFs for a while... I'm waiting on a CF15, but have only really used brewbuckets to date. I'm trying to account for losses with dumping trub / harvesting yeast, etc. I know it will vary based on the amount of hops in dry hopping as well, but how much are you typically losing when you dump trub and/or harvest yeast? I'm trying to make sure i put the right amount in the fermenter so i can fill my kegs and not be too short
I cannot answer for the cf15, as I have a cf5, but between trub/yeast dump and dry-hopping, I would say for me about 0.5 gallons is a fair estimate. If you review this very thread, a few pages back, someone actually does the math- they used schematics provided by Spike and did some fairly involved math. I think if you view the loss as a percentage (i.e. 10% loss) than maybe a cf15 is 1.5 or so? That seems very high to me...
I am sure a cf15 owner will chime in here soon.
Note- make sure you get a racking arm! I waited too long! that alone should help me get some more beer out, plus not have to worry about clogged transfers. Also- you are gonna love your cf!!
As much as you can if you are using a lot of dry hops and want to make 15 gallons.
I have a CF15 and try to get 17.5-18 gallons into there to start.
Sometimes I fill it with wort a few degrees above pitching temp and let the trub settle while temp drops over 2-3 hours. Then dump 1-2 quarts of trub and pitch the yeast. I'll dump about a quart of early yeast once the stuff starts dropping on its own. Then cold crash to 55 and dump about half a gallon. I harvest about a quart of that and toss the rest. Then I add dry hops. I rouse the dry hops a few times over 2-3 days and then chill to about 30 and start dumping the dry hops. That ends up being at least a gallon over a couple dumps. That was for about 12 oz of dry hops.
I end up with just about exactly 3 full corney kegs. By weight I aim for 41 pounds of beer in each keg. There will still be a few pints below the racking arm but that is price to pay to not struggle with clogging poppets during closed transfers.
flyerwire
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thanks to both! i've estimated about 1.5g from my rough math as well and thats what i'll use to start and go from there. I'd rather have more left over then not enough to fill. How does your CF15 handle 17.5G or you drop half a gallon before you even pitch to drop out trub?
I have to room to take eric19312's path to start, i'll try to optimize from there, but doing a heavy dry hopped IPA will most likely require some adjustments for the extra hop loss
I'll start easy and fill 2 sixtels to start and adjust form there
also... racking arm was definitely ordered with the CF
I have to room to take eric19312's path to start, i'll try to optimize from there, but doing a heavy dry hopped IPA will most likely require some adjustments for the extra hop loss
I'll start easy and fill 2 sixtels to start and adjust form there
also... racking arm was definitely ordered with the CF
If you haven't, I'll throw in the recommendation for the extended brace and casters. I bought a Flex+ and regretted not doing the same. Didn't make that mistake with my CF10.
flyerwire
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The extended brace is on the way with the shorty leg extensions. The location these will sit are not very conducive to casters so didn't get them, but will see once i start using it. They shouldn't need to move at all (at least thats my goal)
i kegged a dry hopped wcipa last night from my cf15. this had chilled and carbonated, i had done an early yeast dump of about a quart then another once crashed where i let out about 2 quarts with all the dry hops. 12oz i believe also, dont have notes in front of me. i was over the 17 gallon mark, probably just under 17.5 on brew day and filled 3 kegs with no clogs. probably a good gallon to gallon and a half left in fermenter which is normal for me when doin a dry hopped beer. i did a kolsch a few weeks ago and only filled it to the 16 gallon mark knowing that i would have less volume loss to worry about. so it varies on style. i also do not move my fermenters when full as caster wont roll where i keep them but i also have no reason to move them. i have the long leg extensions and chilling coils with a glycol chiller and a carb stone. i dont always carb in the fermenter it really just depends what my time frame is.
CodeSection
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You will have to dial it in depending upon your processes. Here is some useful information from Spike that may help you with your math...
https://spikebrewing.freshdesk.com/...idths-depths-and-volumes-of-our-conical-lines
https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.freshd...rs=Host&response-content-type=application/pdf
Just kegged my IPA. A couple of things I noticed with having the elbow below the butterfly valve.
1) It did seem easier to harvest the yeast. I have a 2" TC x 1/2" barb with some silicone hose like you guys recommended. It was pretty easy as I would push the trub out with co2 into a pitcher. Once the flow started picking up and it looked more creamy, I filled up a mason pint jar, capped it off, and put it in the fridge for the next batch.
2) Racking into a keg was MUCH slower this go around compared to the last batch. I made the mistake of racking the beer first thinking I'd just harvest the yeast afterward. Should have dumped first then rack. Because of the placement of the butterfly valve being above the elbow vs below it, the trub was also raised closer to the racking port. I kept clogging my disconnect as I was racking to the keg. I bumped the pressure up a little and kept flicking the beer line with my finger and that seemed to help. I imagine a lower hopped beer might not have that problem.
I think I like the elbow below the valve, so I'm going to leave it that way. But next time, I'll dump and harvest before racking. I imagine I may need a larger transfer line between the conical and keg. I'm using 5mm EZ barrier line with a beer disconnect on one end and a 1.5 x MFL connector on the other end.
What line are you using when you're racking to your kegs?
half inch ID silicone hose with a 1.5" TC to camlock to connect to the racking valve.
ITV
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I am using a 3/8" hose with a camlock on one end and MFL on the other end which connects to my ball lock. The spring in the ball lock acts like a screen. When the flow stops I shut off the butterfly valve and remove the spring on the ball lock, spray it down with starsan, reassemble and continue on. My last NEIPA I kegged I had problems with pluggage initially since I didn't purge enough beer/hop trub from the 1.5" ball valve before the transfer. Once I purged the beer line the second time, I didn't have anymore pluggages.
The camlock connects to the 1.5"TC to camlock adapter.
The camlock connects to the 1.5"TC to camlock adapter.
As @CodeSection linked the CF15 full volume is 17.9 gallons per spike. I don't believe this includes the elbow or the sight glass. Calculated volume of those pieces is 0.15 gallons so you are easily over 18 gallons full. Also I don't have the chilling coil so that gives me a tiny bit more volume to play with.
I have the smaller brace and the shorty legs. No casters and I don't move it unless empty.
I do ferment with the blow off tube at least until just a few points from FG. I got some yeast blow off in my last batch but I did not get a chance to dump trub on that batch so likely I was quite full.
Overall I am very satisfied with how the CF15 is handling 17.5 gallon to the fermentor batches.
Thanks guys. I see Bobby M has a transfer kit that uses the same size hose. It is out of stock, but I have to wait anyways since I'm out of work (start back next week).
I think after last night the next thing I'm going to get for mine is the temp coil. I think I would have much better luck if I was able to do a proper cold crash. I already have a small pond pump I can use for recirculating. Just need to add the line and connectors.
I think after last night the next thing I'm going to get for mine is the temp coil. I think I would have much better luck if I was able to do a proper cold crash. I already have a small pond pump I can use for recirculating. Just need to add the line and connectors.
I think it probably dropped more than expected, but a true cold crash would have probably gave me better results. I think the biggest issues with my clog was the beer was an IPA, I had the butterfly valve mounted above the elbow (which would raise the height of the trub), and my transfer line is the 5mm EZ Barrier line from CF to keg.
Next time, I'm going to dump the trub, then rack the beer instead of the other way around.
I've never cold crashed even though I'm set up to do it . That's why I never dry hop commando. I have great results using bags but sometimes I'd rather not deal with them . However I've seen so many posts of clogged equipment due to hop particles. One of these days maybe I'll try it .
The biggest reasoning for me to dry hop commando was hop extraction. The last batch I did, an amber ale with comet hops, I used a bag and didn't seem to get as much hop aroma and flavor. That batch still plugged my racking arm and I had to pop the 4" cap and retrieve the bag with some sanitized tongs. This happened while filling the second keg. Looking back, I also wonder if I had an oxidation issue with that keg as that beer didn't seem to taste as good as the first keg.
I know this time different recipe/different hops won't be apple to apples, but still hope it's a good beer.
I know this time different recipe/different hops won't be apple to apples, but still hope it's a good beer.
(Up Arrow) This!
I feel like every time I bag hops I just don't get the full benefit!
I was racking 6 oz dry hops NE in my cf5 with NO racking arm! A few clogs as I went, but doable.
My next batch will be my first with a racking arm- I think it will make a HUGE difference!
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