Spike Conical- observations and best practices

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I think if you are going to mention ability to roll these things around when full it is important to mention the actual unit you have, the type of leg extensions if any, and the bracing shelf. I was thinking @Jag75 has a CF5 and @mongoose33 has a CF10.

Each size up has a correspondingly higher center of gravity. It would be interesting math problem to figure out how much higher but I guess an estimate is ok. My CF15 likely weighs about 60 pounds empty with all accessories mounted with center of gravity about 25" off the ground. With 18 gallons of wort added it's now 210 pounds and center of gravity maybe between 35 inches.

As I understand it, the increase in weight and height of center of gravity compound when considering the potential energy of the system. Using an online calculator I see my unit empty would have 125 foot pounds potential energy while full 612 foot pounds. I'm careful around this thing when it's full and happy to leave it stationary for sure.
 
eric19312 said:
I think if you are going to mention ability to roll these things around when full it is important to mention the actual unit you have, the type of leg extensions if any, and the bracing shelf. I was thinking @Jag75 has a CF5 and @mongoose33 has a CF10.

Each size up has a correspondingly higher center of gravity. It would be interesting math problem to figure out how much higher but I guess an estimate is ok. My CF15 likely weighs about 60 pounds empty with all accessories mounted with center of gravity about 25" off the ground. With 18 gallons of wort added it's now 210 pounds and center of gravity maybe between 35 inches.

As I understand it, the increase in weight and height of center of gravity compound when considering the potential energy of the system. Using an online calculator I see my unit empty would have 125 foot pounds potential energy while full 612 foot pounds. I'm careful around this thing when it's full and happy to leave it stationary for sure.
Click to expand...

You're right, it's the inertia--early on, I was fortunate in that I was rolling my empty unit and one of the casters hit a pebble or something. Guess what happened (not you Eric, you know)? The top half of the conical wanted to keep going while the bottom was stopped. Thank goodness it was empty.

I suppose one could argue that one should only roll the conical when empty, but in my case, where I fill it and where it ends up are six feet apart, more or less. I usually push it but an even safer way to do it is to pull it.

Either way, one needs to exercise basic care in terms of the smoothness of the floor, how much it weighs, how you push it, and if you add weight to the bottom shelf to help with COG stability.
 
hezagenius said:
Are anyone else's leg extensions crooked? I couldn't get any of mine to screw in straight and I had to force the legs to line up with the stabilizing shelf. Not giving me good vibes when I'm going to fill it soon.
Click to expand...
Make sure your bracing bracket is aligned correctly. On the smaller bracket....One side of the triangle is shorter than the other two side by about 1/2 inch or so. That could cause your alignment issue.
 
tneary said:
Make sure your bracing bracket is aligned correctly. On the smaller bracket....One side of the triangle is shorter than the other two side by about 1/2 inch or so. That could cause your alignment issue.
Click to expand...

I have the extended bracket and it's in the correct orientation.

I didn't take pictures before I attached the extensions but the screw posts on them are definitely crooked.
 
My extensions weren't crooked, but they didn't line up on the mark either. I had to slightly wedge two of the three legs in place. It didn't take a lot of pressure, but I imagine this is in design to make the unit more rigid when assembled. As for mobility issues.....

My conical is the CF10 with the shorty legs and the extended bracket. The casters sit outside the legs so it's more stable. I brew in my garage and ferment in my basement, so this means I have to roll it around when full/empty. I've only done one batch, but had no issues moving it around full (11 gallons). It is top heavy, but it's also front heavy with all the ports and its valve attachments being on that side. Per Spike's instructions, I move the conical where the single back leg is always to the front. Pulling from the single back leg vs pushing from the front two legs is more stable imo, as the two front casters will trail behind the bracket instead of underneath it, making it more stable. I have two door thresholds to go over when moving to my basement. That's the only time I'm to the front the conical (ports toward me) to brace it as I can tip it back toward me to get the single leg caster to clear the thresholds. Then I just pull the unit toward me as the two front casters clear the thresholds. Seems to work for me. The biggest thing is don't get in a hurry.

Spike should have made it a 4 legged vessel imo for more stability. I can't remember how the leg extensions are oriented (male threads top or bottom?) but an idea I have is to take the extensions off, fill them with sand, then reattach them. I don't know how much it would lower the center of gravity but seems that approach works for bookshelf speakers/stands. Should be better than nothing.
 
Yesfan said:
My extensions weren't crooked, but they didn't line up on the mark either. I had to slightly wedge two of the three legs in place. It didn't take a lot of pressure, but I imagine this is in design to make the unit more rigid when assembled. As for mobility issues.....

My conical is the CF10 with the shorty legs and the extended bracket. The casters sit outside the legs so it's more stable. I brew in my garage and ferment in my basement, so this means I have to roll it around when full/empty. I've only done one batch, but had no issues moving it around full (11 gallons). It is top heavy, but it's also front heavy with all the ports and its valve attachments being on that side. Per Spike's instructions, I move the conical where the single back leg is always to the front. Pulling from the single back leg vs pushing from the front two legs is more stable imo, as the two front casters will trail behind the bracket instead of underneath it, making it more stable. I have two door thresholds to go over when moving to my basement. That's the only time I'm to the front the conical (ports toward me) to brace it as I can tip it back toward me to get the single leg caster to clear the thresholds. Then I just pull the unit toward me as the two front casters clear the thresholds. Seems to work for me. The biggest thing is don't get in a hurry.

Spike should have made it a 4 legged vessel imo for more stability. I can't remember how the leg extensions are oriented (male threads top or bottom?) but an idea I have is to take the extensions off, fill them with sand, then reattach them. I don't know how much it would lower the center of gravity but seems that approach works for bookshelf speakers/stands. Should be better than nothing.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a picture of your CF10 with the extended bracing shelf?
 
CodeSection said:
Can you provide a picture of your CF10 with the extended bracing shelf?
Click to expand...


Sure can.

Spike Fermenters.jpg

Most recent pic. Fat Man (CF10) and Little Boy (Flex +)
 
Anyone have their gas post on the manifold not seal when you put a ball lock connector on it? My gas post holds pressure ok, but as soon as I hook up a grey ball lock connector to the post, it just sprays out gas from in between the post and the connector. I've tried pushing it down further in case it wasn't on all the way, but that doesn't do anything.
 
hezagenius said:
Anyone have their gas post on the manifold not seal when you put a ball lock connector on it? My gas post holds pressure ok, but as soon as I hook up a grey ball lock connector to the post, it just sprays out gas from in between the post and the connector. I've tried pushing it down further in case it wasn't on all the way, but that doesn't do anything.
Click to expand...

It must be a worn o-ring, either the outer one that you can see or the inner one that requires disassembly. Also, check the sealing elements in the ball lock connector as well, but I would suspect the post rings first.
 
Last edited:
Beholder said:
It must be a worn o-ring, either the outer one that you can see or the inner one that requires disassembly. Also, check the sealing elements in the ball lock connector as well, but I would suspect the post rings first.
Click to expand...

Maybe. The connector works on a different post just fine, and the manifold is brand new.
 
hezagenius said:
Maybe. The connector works on a different post just fine, and the manifold is brand new.
Click to expand...
Possible a stupid question but you are using a gas ball lock connector and not a liquid one. Alot of people don't realize there slightly different sizes. Cheers
 
hezagenius said:
Maybe. The connector works on a different post just fine, and the manifold is brand new.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you’ve eliminated the connector, so must be the post. I would suggest disassembly for inspection. You may find a mis-machined surface, a bound o-ring, some foreign material interfering with the sealing surface...
 
I’ve had similar issue with both the manifold and the carb stone. I give it a dab of keg lube on the o-ring and make sure it’s not hissing when I turn on the gas. If hissing, I reseat it and usually does the trick.

One thing I’ve noticed is it’s kind of awkward connecting a ball lock connector when the post is anything other than vertical. I’m cautious with how much horizontal force I’ll apply to the fermentor for fear of tipping it over, but when connecting to kegs I can use as much force as I like.

Maybe these would work better with pin lock connections.
 
Beholder said:
Sounds like you’ve eliminated the connector, so must be the post. I would suggest disassembly for inspection. You may find a mis-machined surface, a bound o-ring, some foreign material interfering with the sealing surface...
Click to expand...

Below is a pic of the manifold including the gas post. The o-ring some are talking about above is shown in the pic, red arrow. Make sure it's not torn or mis-installed, and it's tight enough.

And, of course, make sure the one that seals to the QD is OK.

manifold.JPG
 
If the manifold holds gas pressure fine when no QD is attached, and leaks when a QD is attached, the only culprits will be the o-ring to the to the far right, a mis formed QD, or a poorly shaped post. Replace those items in that order (easy/cheap to hard/costly).
 
This thread is great and seems like a good crowd to ask...
I’m looking at a CF15 for myself and plan on setting it inside a fridge or freezer.
I’m worried about the weight destroying the inside of the freezer or fridge.
Any CF15 users out there have experience with one inside a freezer or fridge?

thanks.
 
FunkedOut said:
This thread is great and seems like a good crowd to ask...
I’m looking at a CF15 for myself and plan on setting it inside a fridge or freezer.
I’m worried about the weight destroying the inside of the freezer or fridge.
Any CF15 users out there have experience with one inside a freezer or fridge?

thanks.
Click to expand...
I cannot speak for the cf15, but when I made my first keezer build, an upright, I went to a local welder shop in town and they plasma cut me a 1/8" (or so) piece of metal, custom fit to my measurements to fit on the floor. I was using commercial kegs at the time, and did not want to damage the floor. I think it was about $25 or so all-in. A great investment IMO.
 
Maybe make a shelf where the weight of the CF15 is distributed evenly. There's a member here that has an upright freezer as a kegerator and he was able to load 11 five gallon cornys in there. I imagine if it can hold 55 gallons of beer, then 15-17 gallons in the CF15 should be no problem.
 
FunkedOut said:
This thread is great and seems like a good crowd to ask...
I’m looking at a CF15 for myself and plan on setting it inside a fridge or freezer.
I’m worried about the weight destroying the inside of the freezer or fridge.
Any CF15 users out there have experience with one inside a freezer or fridge?

thanks.
Click to expand...
Yes I have my cf15 in a stand up freezer on a wood shelf. It's excellent. I also have wheels on the freezer and have rolled it around full on occasion. Can't get a better easier cooling/heating solution. Cheers
 

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FunkedOut said:
This thread is great and seems like a good crowd to ask...
I’m looking at a CF15 for myself and plan on setting it inside a fridge or freezer.
I’m worried about the weight destroying the inside of the freezer or fridge.
Any CF15 users out there have experience with one inside a freezer or fridge?

thanks.
Click to expand...

I’m using CF15 in a freezer no problem.
 
eric19312 said:
Why would there be oxygen in the sight glass? My sight glass is full of yeast.
Click to expand...

Sorry. For multiple dumps. First trub dump could happen before fermentation starts and can start with valve open so clean dump but any subsequent ones there will be air in the sight glass that will rise upwards into the conical.
 
A three-legged conical won't rock, but I think what really matters here is how resistant the conical is to capsizing. And that's different.

Here's a way to demonstrate it geometrically:
Draw a circle of any diameter, then draw a square (corners are the four legs) and a triangle (corners are the three legs) inside and tangent to the circle.

Note that the sides of the triangle are closer to the center of the circle that the sides of the square. That's what creates the difference in capsize resistance.

-Tom (happy owner of a three-legged conical)
 
Nate R said:
... unless it's a 3-legged stool that used to be 4-legged...
Click to expand...

Tripod like most things that require stability on uneven surfaces. I agree either one of two things could be different. Wheels farther apart with some sort of angled legs. With four legs if the floor is uneven people would complain about the rocking.
 
Well to put some of you "three-leggers" minds at ease, I don't plan on sending back my CF10 because it's lacking an extra leg for stability. Matter of fact, I can't wait to pay this thing off so I can get the CF5.
 
Finished my first batch (a NEIPA) in a CF5.

What I learned:
If you have a lot of dry hops, the ability to chill seems mandatory. I couldn't get my fermenter below 60F and I struggled to keep beer clear during the transfer.

If you have a lot of dry hops, you need some sort of filter on the way to the keg. I used an in-line filter and it clogged a lot.

When you open a valve, beer comes out faster than you expect!

If you use a carb stone, the psi needs to be cranked up a little to keep beer from coming through the gas line.

What I plan to do going forward:
Buy a glycol chiller setup.
Explore a floating diptube setup although the chilling coil could get in the way.
Hang the carb stone from the lid.
 
hezagenius said:
Finished my first batch (a NEIPA) in a CF5.

What I learned:
If you have a lot of dry hops, the ability to chill seems mandatory. I couldn't get my fermenter below 60F and I struggled to keep beer clear during the transfer.

If you have a lot of dry hops, you need some sort of filter on the way to the keg. I used an in-line filter and it clogged a lot.

When you open a valve, beer comes out faster than you expect!

If you use a carb stone, the psi needs to be cranked up a little to keep beer from coming through the gas line.

What I plan to do going forward:
Buy a glycol chiller setup.
Explore a floating diptube setup although the chilling coil could get in the way.
Hang the carb stone from the lid.
Click to expand...
Just a heads-up if you have the proper cooling setup and use the device as intended you won't need any filter's etc regards of how many hops you add. You will need the racking arm, prv as well as the ability to cold crash. Ensure that you leave the racking arm facing down during fermentation to avoid it filling with sediment and immediately clogging your connection when racking. After cold crashing below 34f min for 48 hours do a dump under pressure with a reducer hose as slowly as possible to avoid punching thru the yeast/sediment until you get clean beer. Don't be stingy. You will loose beer so always make more then you will need for packaging. You can then add the carb stone if desired for another 24 hours and your good to go. I've used my cf15 about 60+ times using this method (I crash at 28f but majority use glycol so that's not a option) and have literally NEVER had any sediment in the connection. I also brew dry hop heavy neipas frequently. Cheers
 
I am about ready to pull the trigger on the CF10, and I now see that Spike has partnered with Penguin to offer the Penguin chillers on the Spike site. The prices appear the same, but convenient nonetheless (one stop shopping!). Is everyone still recommending the Penguin over the SS (or any other)? Looks like Stasis people still don't have their machines to do a real review.
 
Blazinlow86 said:
Just a heads-up if you have the proper cooling setup and use the device as intended you won't need any filter's etc regards of how many hops you add. You will need the racking arm, prv as well as the ability to cold crash. Ensure that you leave the racking arm facing down during fermentation to avoid it filling with sediment and immediately clogging your connection when racking. After cold crashing below 34f min for 48 hours do a dump under pressure with a reducer hose as slowly as possible to avoid punching thru the yeast/sediment until you get clean beer. Don't be stingy. You will loose beer so always make more then you will need for packaging. You can then add the carb stone if desired for another 24 hours and your good to go. I've used my cf15 about 60+ times using this method (I crash at 28f but majority use glycol so that's not a option) and have literally NEVER had any sediment in the connection. I also brew dry hop heavy neipas frequently. Cheers
Click to expand...


+1 on this (emphasis mine)
I have been using an inline filter but having gotten much better at cold crashing and dumping may go ahead and stop using it soon. As Blazinlow says you have to plan volume to have enough to dump. I'm starting with close to 18 gallons in the CF15.

It's been a learning curve and each use has gone better than the one before. @hezagenius I am curious about a couple ideas you mention. What do you mean hang the carb stone from the lid? I guess not going with the Spike unit...still I don't see how you can do that without compromising the PRV on the manifold. Really don't want to do that especially in conjunction with pressurizing the vessel.

Glycol is not only chilling solution. A freezer will get you colder than glycol and provides some flexibility about what you do with the top port. No coil in the tank you could probably do that floating dip tube idea but I'd say with being able to chill below freezing you probably find you don't need that.
 
BoilerInSoCal said:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on the CF10, and I now see that Spike has partnered with Penguin to offer the Penguin chillers on the Spike site. The prices appear the same, but convenient nonetheless (one stop shopping!). Is everyone still recommending the Penguin over the SS (or any other)? Looks like Stasis people still don't have their machines to do a real review.
Click to expand...

I went with Penguin and have been overall happy. Wish it had a slightly larger resorvoir (like 2 or 3 gallons). LOVE the immediate attention and service from Penguin (and local USA assembled).
But- morebeet has a pre-order for $700 that would have been perfect for me:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/brewbuilt-icemaster-max-2-glycol-chiller.html

That competes with Staisi other than size IMO.

There are now 3 more options available today then were about a year ago when i bought!

All above is my opinion only. Please feel free to critize as needed!!
 
BoilerInSoCal said:
I am about ready to pull the trigger on the CF10, and I now see that Spike has partnered with Penguin to offer the Penguin chillers on the Spike site. The prices appear the same, but convenient nonetheless (one stop shopping!). Is everyone still recommending the Penguin over the SS (or any other)? Looks like Stasis people still don't have their machines to do a real review.
Click to expand...

Don't confuse business agreements with functionality. There are a lot of threads on HBT that you can research to help you make a better decision. However, you may have already read those threads and discovered the "one stop shopping" is more important to you...who knows.

Here are a few threads that you might find useful.....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/icemaster-max-4-glycol-chiller.676075/#post-8803532

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/ss-brewtech-1-5-hp-glycol-chiller.672532/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...for-homebrewers-pre-order-now-for-599.668108/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...ycol-chiller-with-stainless-bulkheads.667259/

EDIT: Here are a couple more threads....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/is-anyone-using-a-penguin-glycol-chiller.647976/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...in-vs-any-others-not-diy.668671/#post-8646863
 
Last edited:
Nate R said:
….But- morebeet has a pre-order for $700 that would have been perfect for me:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/brewbuilt-icemaster-max-2-glycol-chiller.html

That competes with Staisi other than size IMO.

There are now 3 more options available today then were about a year ago when i bought!....
Click to expand...

It looks like the Max 2 has the same "guts" (BTU, reservoir size, etc.) as the IceMaster 100 and Icemaster Max 4 except that it has just two built-in pumps. Their new footprint is just a few inches larger than the Stasis.

With the Max 2 being built with the proven IceMaster system and being more powerful and cheaper than the Stasis (which is unproven at this point), I cannot see how the Stasis could survive.

As you know @Nate R, I bought my Icemaster 100 when it went on sale for only $679.99. Thus, I suspect for those that are patient, they could buy the Max 2 a lot cheaper when MoreBeer runs their 15-17% off sales. Thanks for the link!
 

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