Special B on the Dubbel

[BuffaloBeer1]

I'm trying to use up some ingredients as well as use some yeast I have going for a Belgian Quad. I was planning on trying to do a Dubbel. I have used Special B in 1/4 lb. quantities for a few recipes and have liked it. I was hoping to use a pound of it, and thought about going up to 1.5 pounds Has anyone had experience using between 1-1.5 pounds? What could I expect from that? This is what I was thinking (some of the numbers are because of trying to use up things. Thanks for any help.

Title: Monkying Around Dubbel

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Belgian Dubbel
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Efficiency: 75%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 7.42%
IBU (tinseth): 35.21
SRM (morey): 18.65

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - Pale 2-Row (79.1%)
1 lb - Special B (6.6%)
0.5 lb - Munich - Light 10L (3.3%)
0.5 lb - Biscuit (3.3%)
0.5 lb - Belgian Candi Syrup - Dark (3.3%)
0.42 lb - Aromatic (2.8%)
0.25 lb - Belgian Candi Syrup - Amber (1.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Warrior (AA 16) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 30 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Trappist High Gravity 3787
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 78 F

 

[bjl110]

I have had the same basic thoughts. I used 8oz in my first bdsa, and next time I'll use a full pound. I think the dark high abv beers can take it even though most every thread you see (or at least that I saw) suggests you go easy on it. But hey, if you like the flavor who cares what CW says right? Its our beer! FWIW I think there is a pound in the Founder's Porter clone.

 

[ashplub]

I don't see a problem with a lb esp. since you don’t have much dark syrup. I might use Belgian pils for some of the base though.

 

[BishopGary]

I think you could go to 1.5# with the Special B, maybe a bit beyond. I have actually done a Dubbel a couple of times that used 1.5#, I also reinforced the dried fruit/raisin flavor by caramelizing raisins and dried apricots with a small amount of wort and my sugar addition, blending it and adding at 10 min. I relied primarily on the Special B for color. So you may want to consider lighter sugar. I would also consider dropping the Bisquit. I really think the Special B goes well with the high alpha hops. The batch mentioned above was a 90 min, so i thought that much Special B would provide more than enough color.

 

[teucer]

You have far too many ingredients for a proper Belgian, IMO.

Special B is doing the job of special yeasts, hot fermentation, and dark sugars all at once. If you use it - and honestly I'm a pretty big fan of what it can contribute, even though real Trappist versions of the style don't have any - you still want some dark or at least amber candi sugar, but you don't also need all the other specialty grains. Maybe a touch of Vienna at most. Just use a proper abbey yeast (the 3787 is probably my favorite yeast I have ever brewed with, though only applicable to certain styles) and aim for the high end of your specified temperature range.

(Yes, you can absolutely make awesome Belgian-inspired beers with complex grain bills, and this one might be a good example. You can even make competition winners in the Belgian categories that way. But that isn't how they make them in Belgium, and I'm a big fan of looking to the breweries a style comes from when trying to brew within somebody else's tradition.)

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Thank you all for the input. I agree from what I've read that this doesn't meet the technicalities of a Belgian. The good news, is that doesn't stop most of us from trying something new. Depending on how this comes out, I may try an authentic Belgian recipe as suggested.

I think I definitely going to go with the full pound of Special B. What are some thoughts on reducing the Biscuit malt to 1/4 pound or even getting rid of it? I used it in a Quad, but haven't tasted it yet to know if I really want that Bready/bisuity flavor in this one.

teucer--when you said "aim for the high end of your specified temp range." Are you referring to the fermentation temp or mash temp? I was already planning on keeping the fermentation temp up there. What temp do you think I should mash at?

 

[teucer]

Thank you all for the input. I agree from what I've read that this doesn't meet the technicalities of a Belgian. The good news, is that doesn't stop most of us from trying something new. Depending on how this comes out, I may try an authentic Belgian recipe as suggested.

Yeah, you should definitely go ahead and brew this. It may not match how the Belgians do it, but it sounds delicious!

teucer--when you said "aim for the high end of your specified temp range." Are you referring to the fermentation temp or mash temp? I was already planning on keeping the fermentation temp up there. What temp do you think I should mash at?

Fermentation. Belgians are often fairly highly attenuated, which often comes in part from a somewhat cooler mash for a longer time period. (Stan Hieronymus in Brew Like A Monk suggests something under 150 for abbey styles.) But then the fermentation schedules at the Trappist breweries either start cool and ramp up to be warm, or ferment warm from the word go. (This is apparently often followed by a very cold secondary, but if you don't have the temperature control for that, just let it sit longer before bottling.)

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Mashing at 150 for 90 min. was what I was going to aim for. The good part about Belgians in NY during the summer is warm fermenting is not a problem. Your right about the difficulty with finding a cool place for secondary. I have a crawl space in my basement that I think could stay between 55-60. That's my best hope.

 

[bjl110]

I used a full pound of toasted malt (which is pretty similar to biscuit) in my BDSA. Granted it was a higher gravity than your recipe, and the only other specialty malt was Special B, but I thought it was great. I figured that I'll throw a pound in a bitters or a pale, so why not a BDSA that has a bunch of strong flavors? I pitched on the cooler side (56 I think) and ramped up to 78, so the yeast twang is pretty evident, but the hot notes aren't there even with 15% candi syrup. There are just some sherry notes on top (which is "in style").

 

[DannPM]

1.018 is yucky, try getting a bit more expected attenuation, I'd shoot for 1.012 for a dubbel.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

1.018 is yucky, try getting a bit more expected attenuation, I'd shoot for 1.012 for a dubbel.

Yucky in a too sweet kind of way? Any tips on how to push the attenuation to the upper edge of the yeasts ability? Or should I consider lowering the amount of base malt?

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

I used a full pound of toasted malt (which is pretty similar to biscuit) in my BDSA. Granted it was a higher gravity than your recipe, and the only other specialty malt was Special B, but I thought it was great. I figured that I'll throw a pound in a bitters or a pale, so why not a BDSA that has a bunch of strong flavors? I pitched on the cooler side (56 I think) and ramped up to 78, so the yeast twang is pretty evident, but the hot notes aren't there even with 15% candi syrup. There are just some sherry notes on top (which is "in style").

So no Yosemite Sam "My biscuits are burning" with yours? Thanks for the feedback on that. I know everyone's tastes are different, but the feedback helps. What was your FG and ABV?

 

[bjl110]

Haha, no. Not for me. Fair warning that I do like it toasty though. I added 20% once (to a Belgian pale actually), just to see why people said not to do it. It was way too much at first, but started tasting great about the three month mark. I don't think I'd add that much again, but I wouldn't blink at 15% (if that's what you're going for). Not that I'm advocating you add that much. Just so you know where I'm coming from.

It was as dry as you can get pretty much. The computer that I had beersmith on died, so I lost all of my notes from the past year, but I think it was like .002 or .004. I added a pound of the candi syrup after primary fermentation was over, so that contributed to the low FG. I think the abv ended up about 9%, but I'm not really sure how to calculate the effects of adding the syrup after primary fermentation.

Re: FG - I wouldn't say that 1.018 is yucky, but it is pretty gosh darn sweet. That would be a good FG for maybe a strong Scotch ale or a IIPA, but not really what I want out of a Belgian. I really want my Belgians to finish dry, like 1.010 or lower. If sweet is what you are going for, then awesome, but that isn't what I'd go for. If you want to lower your FG I would mash long and low (149-150 for 60-90) as well as add some candi syrup after primary fermentation is over (like 3-4 days). If it were me, I'd up the % of sugar too. I like my Belgians thin and dry to hide how "big" the beer is, and sugar does both of those. I'd probably double the amount in your recipe and take it up to 10%. I don't know your process, but I'd also double batch sparge for like 20-30 min a sparge. Or whatever fits in your process best. Just try and suck out every last drop of sugar from those puppies that you can!

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Thank you all for the feedback. I kept having to delay getting this one going. I hope to have it brewed this weekend.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Well, I have held off updating for a while until I have had several of these and received input from others. The flavor and nose is just fantastic. There is a sweet plum, raisin, and toffee nose with plenty of similar flavors, but finishes dry. It finished out around 8.5%, a little high for a dubbel, but it seems very well hidden even while young. I think going with the whole pound of Special B was perfect. Thanks again for the help.

 

[ashplub]

What was your final recipe and FG?

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

I think the final was the same as I originally posted it, but is below anyway. This was the last batch I did before switching away from the stove top/biab method (switching my efficiency dropped from 75% to 70%). I initially brewed this as a way to use up some grains and create a yeast cake for a Quad. I think it was in the primary for 10 days and the secondary for about 10 days as well. I did use a 1L starter. The final gravity was not as is written; it actually went down to 1.011, 8.4% abv. When I think about the flavors compared to a "true" dubbel, it still finishes dry, but seems a lot sweeter, and has bolder flavors. If there was a category for a Belgian Strong Scotch Ale, I think it might fight the bill (minus the peaty flavor). All in all, it satisfies my taste buds along with the 7 others who have tasted it. Obviously, if anyone attempts this or something similar let me know how it goes.


Title: Monkying Around Dubbel

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Belgian Dubbel
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Efficiency: 75%

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 7.42%
IBU (tinseth): 35.21
SRM (morey): 18.65

FERMENTABLES:
12 lb - Pale 2-Row (79.1%)
1 lb - Special B (6.6%)
0.5 lb - Munich - Light 10L (3.3%)
0.5 lb - Biscuit (3.3%)
0.5 lb - Belgian Candi Syrup - Dark (3.3%)
0.42 lb - Aromatic (2.8%)
0.25 lb - Belgian Candi Syrup - Amber (1.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Warrior (AA 16) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 30 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil

MASH STEPS:
1) Temperature, Temp: 149 F, Time: 90 min

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 each - Whirlfloc Tablet, Time: 10 min, Type: Fining, Use: Boil

YEAST:
Wyeast - Trappist High Gravity 3787
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 76%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temperature: 64 F - 78 F

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Looks good. I was thinking about a recipe along these lines, thinl ill give it a shot and let you know how ti comes out. How long after bottling did you drink? When did it hit prime?

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Looks good. I was thinking about a recipe along these lines, thinl ill give it a shot and let you know how ti comes out. How long after bottling did you drink? When did it hit prime?

Sorry, it's been a long time since I've logged in to my account; hasn't stopped me from brewing though.
I would say that this like other dark Belgians seem to hit "prime" after about a year. That being said I usually don't let things last that long. I enjoyed this one so much, that I've been trying to convince myself to brew it again. I rarely brew the same thing twice for better or worse. Since brewing this I've become a huge fan of Special B. Let me know if you ended up doing something similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Sorry, it's been a long time since I've logged in to my account; hasn't stopped me from brewing though.
I would say that this like other dark Belgians seem to hit "prime" after about a year. That being said I usually don't let things last that long. I enjoyed this one so much, that I've been trying to convince myself to brew it again. I rarely brew the same thing twice for better or worse. Since brewing this I've become a huge fan of Special B. Let me know if you ended up doing something similar.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

I opted to make a Belgium stout this time.but a simplified version of your recipe is on the brew list.