Spa Panel keeps tripping

[weathejx]

I followed the P-Js 4 wire diagram, and the breaker trips as soon as I plug something into the outlet (like the dryer) even with no load.

What am I doing wrong here?

Please note that the neutral wire, from the breaker to the outlet, is green because I didn't have 10g white wire.

Does it matter that I used the terminal connections on the incoming cord instead of removing them and using bare wire?

wiring

outlet orientation

 

[cbzdel]

I am not pro, but just observing...

Should your neutral be hooked up to the breaker itself or to the box bar (not sure if there is a specifc term for that)?

edit: just thinking again I am not pro haha... the GFCI trips if load is going though it, so if the neutral is wired to the breaker the load is going though it, if its wired to the box bar the load is just going into the bar itself...

Again not a pro, just a general observation haha..

 

[bsperr]

The wiring looks correct to me. Have you tried plugging anything else into the outlet besides the dryer to see if it trips? I've heard of dryer's having problems with moisture sensors in the drum that are seen by a GFCI to be a leakage to ground. There could also be a short at another place in the dryer. I would remove the dryer from the equation and see if you can power something else from the spa panel. If you still have problems, I might suspect a short somewhere else in the wiring, like in your cord or plug. If you ruled everything else out, it could just be a bad GFCI breaker

 

[cbzdel]

Like I said not a pro haha.. I google imaged spa panel and found lots of images thatt show hows its wired an it matches yours..

Are your wires correct on the other end, where they attach to your main breaker box?? I have also read reviews on that box about them coming with a bad breaker as well so that could be..

 

[atoughram]

I looked at mine and its wired up similar. Do you have a volt meter?? You should have ~240V between the red and the black wires and ~120V between both the Red and White and Black and White on your incoming when plugged in.

 

[augiedoggy]

The wiring looks correct to me. Have you tried plugging anything else into the outlet besides the dryer to see if it trips? I've heard of dryer's having problems with moisture sensors in the drum that are seen by a GFCI to be a leakage to ground. There could also be a short at another place in the dryer. I would remove the dryer from the equation and see if you can power something else from the spa panel. If you still have problems, I might suspect a short somewhere else in the wiring, like in your cord or plug. If you ruled everything else out, it could just be a bad GFCI breaker

Ditto... I have also heard of dryers causing gfci breakers to trip if used with them.

 

[ForestGroveBrewer]

Make sure the neutral bar isnt bonded to the enclosure.

 

[atoughram]

He's only plugging it into the dryer outlet "even with no load."

No load means the dryer isn't plugged into the GFCI.

At least I'll make that assumption.

 

[weathejx]

He's only plugging it into the dryer outlet "even with no load."

No load means the dryer isn't plugged into the GFCI.

At least I'll make that assumption.

I mean "Plugging the dryer into it without turning it on"

basically, I plug the spa panel into the wall, okeydokey. As soon as I plug in the dryer, it trips.

I haven't wired my control panel yet, so I don't really have anything else to plug in to it. I guess I could wrap the exposed terminal connections for the cord, then plug then non-connected cord into the outlet to see if it trips - right?

 

[weathejx]

Make sure the neutral bar isnt bonded to the enclosure.

Do you mean, "make sure the neutral bar isn't somehow touching the enclosure?"

I will check when I get home.

 

[grandequeso]

Open the back of the dryer, I bet you the factory bonding strap was never removed. Dryers come from the factory bonded with neutral and ground bonded for people with three wire set up. I will often 4 wire dryer cord improperly installed. typically it's the same joker who deliver the dryer who is installing the cord wrong.

 

[ajdelange]

Use an ohm meter to check for continuity (or finite impedance) between the dryer plug's ground and neutral pins. I suspect this (earth - neutral fault) may be the source of your problem. In days of yore dryers used a phase/phase/ground run from the panel with low voltages derived from a transformer. When the current 4 wire outlet became a requirement the manufacturers still wanted to sell to people with the grandfathered house wiring and so used a three terminal block with 120 taken between the center and one of the other two terminals. In an old 3 wire house the terminals get red/green/black and the center (green) is jumpered to the frame. 120 is derived from the earth wire in this hookup but as the dryer is on its own circuit the code allows this exception. In a 4 wire hookup the terminal block is wired red/white/black and green goes the frame. The jumper must not be installed in a 4 wire connection. I suspect it may have been left in when the dryer was changed from a 3 wire to 4 wire connection. Just speculating here.

I am also assuming the the GFCI breaker is one of the newer ones that detects earth-neutral faults.

[Edit] What he said in #11

 

[brew_ny]

Open the back of the dryer, I bet you the factory bonding strap was never removed. Dryers come from the factory bonded with neutral and ground bonded for people with three wire set up. I will often 4 wire dryer cord improperly installed. typically it's the same joker who deliver the dryer who is installing the cord wrong.

that would be what I check, it is the way the dryer itself is ground

if OP is just plugging it in and it is tripping the GFCI the inside the neutral and the ground are some how connected

all the best

S_M

 

[jeffmeh]

Open the back of the dryer, I bet you the factory bonding strap was never removed. Dryers come from the factory bonded with neutral and ground bonded for people with three wire set up. I will often 4 wire dryer cord improperly installed. typically it's the same joker who deliver the dryer who is installing the cord wrong.

My money is on this one.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[weathejx]

Open the back of the dryer, I bet you the factory bonding strap was never removed. Dryers come from the factory bonded with neutral and ground bonded for people with three wire set up. I will often 4 wire dryer cord improperly installed. typically it's the same joker who deliver the dryer who is installing the cord wrong.

I wasn't able to get to the back of my dryer, but I was able to plug in the (not connected to anything at this point) cord I'm going to be using. It didn't trip and I was able to test the voltage coming from the two hot legs and it looks like everything is working fine.

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[ajdelange]

Did you do the ohm meter check suggested in #12? That would confirm the jumper (or another earth-neutral fault).

Another thing you can try is joining earth and neutral in the cord you are planning to use when it is plugged into your box and the breaker is closed. If that causes a trip it confirms that your breaker is capable of responding to a neutral to earth fault and that that is probably what caused the trip when the dryer was plugged in. At sometime the jumper should be removed from the dryer.

 

[captrichc]

Most dryers are wired to be only 3 wire plugs. Like stated above. There is a bond between the ground and neutral. A grill will trip if this is the case.