Souring my saison post fermentation!!!

[CoreyG]

Hey Gang,

So I will be honest and admit, I got lazy and did 0 research before trying to "sour" my Saison and, now in hindsight, did mostly everything wrong to get a pretty useless sour. My main question - should I cut my looses and bottle it as a slightly bretty saison or try to mess around with it more?

Here are the details.
It's a fairly straightforward saison recipe.
OG 1.064
26 IBUs (so quite high for a sour which is a nono from what I see)
FG was 1.004 before pitching a Wyeast Brett Lambicus (again, opps, left the Brett with little food)
I transferred the beer into a new carboy (off the yeast cake) before pitching the Brett.

this was in october, I'm now 5 months later with a beer stable at 0.998 (for like 1-2 months its been stable) and its a good tasting Saison with a little bit of brett funk... I was hoping to get something with a bit more sourness and character.

I was hoping someone with a bit more experience with sour could chime, am I too late to do anything interesting with it?
1) Will adding more sugar help the brett bounce back?
2) Am I better off just leaving the beer on the cake, and when I go to bottle it, I pitch another beer directly onto the cake?
3) I have another Saison with the same pre-bretting characteristics (1 month since brewing) that I was gonna throw Roeselaire blend into next week? Should I even bother? If yes, should I add sugar into it before pitching the brett?

I know its lots of questions buttttttttttt if anyone has advice on ANY or all of the questions, it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Corey

 

[radwizard]

What I would do if I was you and had a good beer, but wanted to try something else to sour or tarten it up would be this:
Bottle half of the beer you already have, and add a fruit to the other half and let it ride for a few more months. I'd probably add some dregs into the mix as well. That way you'd get some of the Saison /w brett and have another beer to expiriment with.
I havent really heard a lot of great stories of pitching directly onto the old yeast cake.

 

[Calder]

I'm now 5 months later with a beer stable at 0.998 (for like 1-2 months its been stable) and its a good tasting Saison with a little bit of brett funk... I was hoping to get something with a bit more sourness and character.

Brett doesn't sour. Brett will continue to work and add complexity to the beer for up to 2 years (maybe longer).

You have a 'good tasting Saison', stable at 0.998. I'd recommend bottling it up and then take you time drinking the bottles and keep notes of how it changes over time. Why screw with a good beer.

I have another Saison with the same pre-bretting characteristics (1 month since brewing) that I was gonna throw Roeselaire blend into next week? Should I even bother? If yes, should I add sugar into it before pitching the brett?

Similarly Brett the Saison if you want, but I wouldn't bother with the Roeselare. The Roeselare blend is said to be weak, and is best used as the primary pitch when there is plenty of food and no alcohol present. The blend has a small amount of yeast, but that takes time to get going allowing the Lacto to get started on the wort before alcohol is created.

Save the Roeselare for a new brew. Use as the only yeast, do not make a starter, and keep IBUs below 10.

 

[madscientist451]

Easy sour recipe: Use Jamil's Flander's red grain bill,mash high, ferment with SO4, when the primary is done, rack to secondary and pitch ECY bug farm. Wait 6-12 months and you'll have a nice sour beer. For more complexity, make another version of the same thing and after 3 months, do some blending trials 1/3 old 2/3 new and 2/3 new, 1/3 old and see what you like. Good Luck,

 

[CoreyG]

Hey Gang, thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

I think I'm gonna try to mess around a little bit and bottle half the bretted saison, add like cherries to the rest and possibly top it off with the younger saison. I risk loosing it ya... but I feel like I want to roll the dice and test it.

Brett doesn't sour. Brett will continue to work and add complexity to the beer for up to 2 years (maybe longer).

Calder, quick question, I thought the Brett Lambicus is supposed to give a sourness. The wyeast description included the following line: It produces a pie cherry-like flavor and sourness along with distinct “Brett” character." Are they just exaggerating it?

Easy sour recipe: Use Jamil's Flander's red grain bill,mash high, ferment with SO4, when the primary is done, rack to secondary and pitch ECY bug farm.

Madscientist, do you know any Wyeast or White labs options that would do a good job instead of the ECY. I'm up in Canada and I'm not sure yet whether I can get that or not ? Any ideas?

Thnks again gang for the help!

 

[beergolf]

I agree with Calder on this. Brett does not sour, but can add a very slight tartness. You were fine pitching th brett at 1.004. Brett actually does not need much to work. I usually ferment my sasions out and then add the brett. If you look up the Chad Yacobson youtube videos about brett he just says if you add brett at a higer gravity, it just takes longer to finish.

If you are at .998, then just bottle it up and enjoy. As it ages it will slowly change

 

[madscientist451]

Sorry, I haven't tried any of the WL or Wyeast sour blends, but if that's what you can get go ahead and try them! I'd also suggest the Sour Hour podcast, lots of great information on sour beers.

 

[5mooth0perator]

At a complete fermentation, I don't think any of the Lacto strains will survive the alcohol content. You could try acetobacter, which will convert alcohol to acetic acid with oxygen, but well no one does that really.

 

[Grod1]

cheat and blend to a kettle sour.
or just cheat ever harder and add some "acid blend" to taste