Source for 10/4 power cable

[DaSwede]

I've been gone for quite a while now, but finally getting back into building my 15gal, 5500w eBIAB system, but I'm trying to find a good source for a main power cable.

I have a dedicated 40A GFCI breaker going to a 4 prong range outlet installed in my garage, but I'll be brewing in my driveway. So, I'll need a fairly long 10/4 power cable to reach my control panel. Does anybody know of a good source for cheap, but good, 10/4 cable? I'll need ~30 feet total, so ideally paying by the foot.

Thanks!

 

[stevehaun]

Home depot

 

[itsnotrequired]

somewhere like an ace hardware should have so cord in stock and will sell by the foot. home centers should also have it too but there it is pre-packaged. i believe 25' is the shortest amount available, might not work for you. places like ebrewsupply.com and brewhardware.com also sell cord by the foot.

you should be aware that it is not kosher to put #10 conductors on a 40 amp breaker for this application.

 

[DaSwede]

somewhere like an ace hardware should have so cord in stock and will sell by the foot. home centers should also have it too but there it is pre-packaged. i believe 25' is the shortest amount available, might not work for you. places like ebrewsupply.com and brewhardware.com also sell cord by the foot.

you should be aware that it is not kosher to put #10 conductors on a 40 amp breaker for this application.

Thanks, I'll check those out!

To original plan was to put a 30A breaker in, since my system won't actually need more than ~24A or so. The electrician couldn't find a 30A breaker for my panel locally though, so he offered to install a 40A for the same price, since he had that on hand.

I have no problem switching to 8/4 wire, I just want to make sure it's definitely needed before throwing more cash at it (8/4 is nearly twice as expensive at some place, by the foot).

 

[golfindia]

I got used 10/4 power connector cables from an RV show for a fraction of what the cost new.

 

[itsnotrequired]

Thanks, I'll check those out!

To original plan was to put a 30A breaker in, since my system won't actually need more than ~24A or so. The electrician couldn't find a 30A breaker for my panel locally though, so he offered to install a 40A for the same price, since he had that on hand.

I have no problem switching to 8/4 wire, I just want to make sure it's definitely needed before throwing more cash at it (8/4 is nearly twice as expensive at some place, by the foot).

check pricing, it may be cheaper to get a 30 amp gfci breaker than to purchase the larger cord.

 

[DaSwede]

check pricing, it may be cheaper to get a 30 amp gfci breaker than to purchase the larger cord.

Sorry for all the questions, I'm a bit of an electrical newbie and I've gotten some conflicting information from friends/colleagues. So, even if my system will only use ~24A, I would still need to use 8ga cable instead of 10ga just because the breaker is 40a?

 

[WI_Wino]

I don't think so because it's not part of the structure wiring. Your nightstand light is plugged into a 15 amp circuit yet does not have 14 gauge wire. If you are concerned you can put a 30 amp fuse on the power in wires inside your control panel.

The wire going from your breaker box with the 40 amp breaker to the outlet in your garage needs to be 8 gauge.

 

[DaSwede]

The wire going from your breaker box with the 40 amp breaker to the outlet in your garage needs to be 8 gauge.

Yeah, it is. My electrical panel is actually in my garage and the range outlet installed is directly below the panel. That whole piece as well as the GFCI breaker was wired up/installed by a local certified electrician to be completely up to code.

 

[Firewalker11]

I went with a 8/3 SOOW cable to the element. It ran $2 a foot.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Sorry for all the questions, I'm a bit of an electrical newbie and I've gotten some conflicting information from friends/colleagues. So, even if my system will only use ~24A, I would still need to use 8ga cable instead of 10ga just because the breaker is 40a?

if it is hard-wired in then you should have 8 ga cable, if you can unplug it then I think you can go with the 10ga, but I'm not an electrician. The danger is that your circuit can actually send out 40 amps, so regardless of what you system pulls if there is a short or malfunction then your 10 ga wire would see 40 amps and becomes a fire-hazard.

If your not comfortable doing breaker work yourself if it was me I would ask the guy to come back and put in a 30A breaker, even if you have to pay him a little more to do it.

 

[DaSwede]

The danger is that your circuit can actually send out 40 amps, so regardless of what you system pulls if there is a short or malfunction then your 10 ga wire would see 40 amps and becomes a fire-hazard.

That's a really good point.

I think I'll pick up about 30 ft. of 8/4 SOOW cable, just to be on the safe side.

Basically it would be breaker/panel -> 8ga cable -> outlet -> 8ga cable -> control panel

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Now to find cheap 8/4 cable

 

[Tegra]

Any permanent wiring, which could be installed inside walls, must follow the code. Portable cordage (eg. Lamp cord, heater cord) has another chart. If you can make this "plug in" you can use a smaller cable.

This means the cable may get warm, but it should get no where near the rating of the insulation. You may worry about the "lost" heat from the warm cable, but if you do the math you will find it is only a few percent.

In practice, how long will the heater be on full power? In my setup I only have it on full for the initial water heating for less than 30 minutes. The rest of the time I am at less than 80%.

No harm in "overrating" everything, but it does make it harder to handle and much more expensive.

T

 

[DaSwede]

Any permanent wiring, which could be installed inside walls, must follow the code. Portable cordage (eg. Lamp cord, heater cord) has another chart. If you can make this "plug in" you can use a smaller cable.

This means the cable may get warm, but it should get no where near the rating of the insulation. You may worry about the "lost" heat from the warm cable, but if you do the math you will find it is only a few percent.

In practice, how long will the heater be on full power? In my setup I only have it on full for the initial water heating for less than 30 minutes. The rest of the time I am at less than 80%.

No harm in "overrating" everything, but it does make it harder to handle and much more expensive.

T

Only the run from the breaker to the outlet (which is already 8ga) is permanent and inside the wall. The rest will be portable cable that I unplug and store whenever the system isn't in use.

The element will probably be used similarly to yours. Mostly to heat water to strike temp and after mashing up to boil temp.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I got a 25 FT 10G extension cord from harbor freight for $35.Works great.Cut off the ends and attach 30 amp ends.Been using it for over a year,roll it up and hang it on your wall when your done..Easy pisey. 5500w element
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GhqGGlBFFLjjjg8tw&sig2=TwP81ePJg4xS4ElfPL_w6w

 

[Firewalker11]

I got a 25 FT 10G extension cord from harbor freight for $35.Works great.Cut off the ends and attach 30 amp ends.Been using it for over a year,roll it up and hang it on your wall when your done..Easy pisey. 5500w element
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GhqGGlBFFLjjjg8tw&sig2=TwP81ePJg4xS4ElfPL_w6w

Rated for 15 amps, you should always look to never exceed 80% of the rating so 8ga SOOW is going to be your best bet for pulling all 23 amps on full power.

Weather something works or not still makes it bad design.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Rated for 15 amps, you should always look to never exceed 80% of the rating so 8ga SOOW is going to be your best bet for pulling all 23 amps on full power.

Weather something works or not still makes it bad design.

I remember (slightly) going over this with the forum and getting the OK.I think the ENDS are rated for 15A but cutting them off and attaching 30 amp ends eliminates the 15A rating. 10G wire is 10G wire and fine for a 30 amp setup.

 

[Firewalker11]

I remember (slightly) going over this with the forum and getting the OK.I think the ENDS are rated for 15A but cutting them off and attaching 30 amp ends eliminates the 15A rating. 10G wire is 10G wire and fine for a 30 amp setup.

Good point, I was looking at the plugged rating and didn't read the end of your post. The CORD with 30 amp ends is good for 30 amps up to 50'.

 

[dyqik]

Good point, I was looking at the plugged rating and didn't read the end of your post. The CORD with 30 amp ends is good for 30 amps up to 50'.

Which makes me wonder why the hell anyone would put expensive 10g cable between 15A connectors? Is there a reason?

 

[sonex]

Which makes me wonder why the hell anyone would put expensive 10g cable between 15A connectors? Is there a reason?

because you can plug 3 electrical items into one cord.

 

[dyqik]

because you can plug 3 electrical items into one cord.

That doesn't really make sense to me. The number of outlets doesn't matter as the cord still can't really be rated to carry more than 15A, because it's got a 15A style plug, and can be plugged into a 15A circuit. You could use 14g wire and would still have the same maximum current rating across all three outlets.

I guess with 12g wire, it could be plugged into a 20A circuit, if the 15A pattern plug was rated for that, but it doesn't seem to be, the rating for the entire cord is only 15A and it's not long enough to need the higher gauge wire to reduce the voltage drop along it.

 

[Tegra]

Maybe just to make it look badass?

At the risk of a flame war, 14ga cord is acceptable for 20A if the insulation can handle the heat and it is in a heater application. (See kettle, toaster, and heater cords)

T

 

[Firewalker11]

14 AWG, cord is good for a max of 80% of 18 amps at 50'. I dont really care personally if you use a 14ga cord but to post that its acceptable? Sorry, but that is only acceptable to you but it remains a hazard to you, your home and others.

This is what I don't get, all this penny-wise, pound-foolish stuff that goes on around here.

I just dont get it...

 

[ReddyK]

This is by far the cheapest option I have found for 10/4 cord and it already has L14-30 ends on it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/25-ft-x-10-Gauge-Generator-Duty-Twist-Lock-Extension-Cord-62308.html

 

[Tegra]

With all due respect, I do not make this up.

NEC Table 400.5 and Table 310.15

 

[augiedoggy]

Ebay is full of it,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-SOOW-B...078965?hash=item1c28972775:g:kbcAAOxyd5tRzJYm

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-4-SOOW-B...873980?hash=item19d281563c:g:QTwAAOxyi3FRzJZd

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GENERATOR-P...351135?hash=item210d143ddf:g:VmIAAOSwBLlVFdsM

 

[augiedoggy]

Maybe just to make it look badass?

At the risk of a flame war, 14ga cord is acceptable for 20A if the insulation can handle the heat and it is in a heater application. (See kettle, toaster, and heater cords)

T

With certain types of cord this is true..
Its not ideal at longer lengths though and I doubt its safe at 50ft...(Edit just saw this was mentioned already) .. I use 12awg cord rated for 25A between my panel and my elements and many overlook this too always preaching 10 awg 30A cord... my elements are 4500w though and only draw 18 amps. 10awg is harder to maneuver and less flexible and total overkill imho vs 25a rated SO and at short lengths like 6-8 ft its just not practical... but then again I dont get all this overboard stuff like everyone recommending 50a services when 90% of home brewers are not running an illegal production and will never utilize the additional amps.

 

[augiedoggy]

This is what I don't get, all this penny-wise, pound-foolish stuff that goes on around here.

I just dont get it...

I get what your saying and in this case I agree.
But being pennywise saved me about 5 grand on my setup vs buying all the equivalents of what I have already built or from costly vendors with large markups... and no I didnt take shortcuts on safety... if you compare my stainless conicals and temp control solution for them alone to just buying the same thing from SS brewing I saved over $1,300 there alone and have a more reliable setup.... and I have the ability to do my own repairs without relying on a company to support the stuff down the road...

All im saying is it adds up...

 

[Firewalker11]

I get what your saying and in this case I agree.
But being pennywise saved me about 5 grand on my setup vs buying all the equivalents of what I have already built or from costly vendors with large markups... and no I didnt take shortcuts on safety... if you compare my stainless conicals and temp control solution for them alone to just buying the same thing from SS brewing I saved over $1,300 there alone and have a more reliable setup.... and I have the ability to do my own repairs without relying on a company to support the stuff down the road...

All im saying is it adds up...

Specifically the 14ga wire bit, not really anything about the Auber vs MyPin, that's your choice and I too use MyPin. I hear you on the rest.

 

[Firewalker11]

With all due respect, I do not make this up.

NEC Table 400.5 and Table 310.15

With all due respect as well, the NEC Table 400.5 states that a two conductor cord is rated for 18A and a three conductor cord is rated for 15A, both of which are rated for as much as 80% of its full amperage rating. Its a safety margin, it allows for things like a kink, tarnished plugs, flattened strands or pinched insulators.

20A is outside of the safety perimeters and if you are comfortable with that, it's your life but again, please don't present this as approval noobs and the like to follow.

An over amped cord may be harmless running across a concrete sidewalk but will cause a serious risk sitting in shag carpet. 10ga wire will not even get warm and allows for all sorts of damage with a nice safety margin.

 

[DaSwede]

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it. I've gone ahead and purchased 30' of 8/4 cable, as I was able to find a source that's relatively cheap. I might get away from 10/4, but I like the peace of mind of 8/4. You never know if something gets knocked loose and causes a short.

For anybody else looking, this is where I bought it and the price:
8/4 SOOW 600V cable for $2.08/foot (minimum of 10 feet required):
http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Por.../SOOW/8-4-SOOW-Portable-Cord-600V-Non-UL.html

10/4 SOOW 600V cable for $1.09/foot (minimum of 25 feet required):
http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Por...SOOW/10-4-SOOW-Portable-Cord-600V-UL-CSA.html

I also found a coupon for 5% off: EMAIL5

 

[Firewalker11]

Great find, thanks for sharing!