Sour mashing technique

[TheMerkle]

Hey guys, Ive been reading a lot about sour mashing and I think I'm ready to attempt a Berliner Weiss. I was just curious if my intended strategy sounds solid to you all.

The plan is to mash about 7 or 8 pounds of pils and wheat right inside a corny keg thats been flushed with co2. After the sacch rest I will cool to 115, pitch another pound of unmilled pils, stir, and bubble co2 up through the outlet dip tube to remove as much oxygen as possible. Then just cap it, purge the headspace and let it sour.

Where things got most interesting for me is when considering how to control the temperature of this badboy until my brew partner says "...you know... the hot tub stays around 105". This is either the best idea we've had or the most boneheaded. We plan to just sit the whole keg in the hot tub and let it ride a few days.

At any rate: after a few days in the jacuzzi, I'm gonna heat the remaining water I need for my target preboil volume to 170 and basically BIAB the whole soured keg into it. Boil it about half an hour to kill the lact and get her into a carboy.

So... after reading this: Am I a special kid? Or does this all seem to be in the right vein?

 

[SpeedYellow]

Sour mashing a Berliner Weisse has largely fallen out of favor due to the substantial risk of really bad flavors/aromas. Kettle souring is the favored process. Some folks still like to use raw-grain lacto (and pedio and brett and ...) and often do a starter first. But more commonly, people will use a controlled source from a producer, or a probiotic, or yogurt. Then there's very low risk of nastiness.

So I'd suggest mashing as normal, run off into a keg or kettle, cover with plastic or purge, pasteurize/boil, cool, pitch a controlled lacto source, and hold at 90-100F for 1-3 days as needed. Then pasteurize/boil or just pitch your sacc yeast without boiling.

 

[TheMerkle]

Ah, so still using bugs to sour first, then killing the bugs and clean fermenting after. My primary goals here are quick sour and uninfected equipment... and if I understand right, using the method you suggested would retain me those qualities?

 

[kaCHUNK]

Speedyellow, we must both be zeroing in on berliner weiss threads today. I'm with you on the sour worting vs sour mashing, but as I mentioned in another thread I've done two batches sour worted and used grains for the lacto both times. If you've got more batches under your belt, how effective do you think dropping the pH below 5 by acidifying the mash and then inoculating using acidulated malt is as far as blocking growth of unwanted bacteria? Pretty effective, or a dice roll?

Threadstarter, not trying to hijack, just thought you might be curious about the idea as well. I figure there's potential for a lot more contaminants in a full mash than in the 0.5 lb of acidulated malt that I've used to inoculate, and the acid makes it tough for anything else to grow on it.

Also, the hot tub idea is genius. Wish I had one.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Ah, so still using bugs to sour first, then killing the bugs and clean fermenting after. My primary goals here are quick sour and uninfected equipment... and if I understand right, using the method you suggested would retain me those qualities?

Yes, the method I suggested will indeed meet your goals. Pasteurize at 170F for 10-15 mins both before and after the lacto souring. Some folks will do a full boil, but no-boil is the traditional process. And apparently temps over 175F can favor the production of DMS, so a boil should ideally be long, not short, in order to drive it off.

Speedyellow, we must both be zeroing in on berliner weiss threads today. I'm with you on the sour worting vs sour mashing, but as I mentioned in another thread I've done two batches sour worted and used grains for the lacto both times. If you've got more batches under your belt, how effective do you think dropping the pH below 5 by acidifying the mash and then inoculating using acidulated malt is as far as blocking growth of unwanted bacteria? Pretty effective, or a dice roll?

Threadstarter, not trying to hijack, just thought you might be curious about the idea as well. I figure there's potential for a lot more contaminants in a full mash than in the 0.5 lb of acidulated malt that I've used to inoculate, and the acid makes it tough for anything else to grow on it.

Also, the hot tub idea is genius. Wish I had one.

I've heard of a couple folks failing to get their wort soured when using acidulated malt, so clearly that's not foolproof. Some folks are perfectly happy using plain old base malt as their souring source. I stick to a cultured source, because on my last batch I made 3 different starters and the starter with raw malt was NASTY. Smelled awful, tasted awful (and no, I shouldn't have tasted it), huge pellicle. No thanks! But of course there's all sorts of nasties on malt, so that comes as no surprise.

I'm not familiar enough with B. Weisse soured from raw grain, so I don't know if the nasty souring gives it some appealing funkiness. I like a clean Berliner Weisse, so I stick to cultures. My current preference is Goodbelly probiotic juice. Easy, reliable, no starter needed, clean souring, cheap.

 

[bknifefight]

I like the idea. It's pretty funny to envision a cornie just floating around in a hot tub!

I do sour mashes often and have never had an issue with bad bacteria taking over. What is important is to make sure you purge everything with CO2, which you seem to know already. My only concern is about the keg in the hot tub and potentially moving around. If kept still, the CO2 blanket would not be disrupted.

Keep the mash covered with CO2 consistently and keep your temp, and I think you'll have a delicious sour mashed Berliner in 24-36 hours.

 

[bknifefight]

...the starter with raw malt was NASTY. Smelled awful, tasted awful (and no, I shouldn't have tasted it), huge pellicle. No thanks! But of course there's all sorts of nasties on malt, so that comes as no surprise...

Sounds like you let a lot of oxygen get to your starter, which allowed the bad bacteria to grow. Was it on a stir plate?

 

[TheMerkle]

It won't move. When not in use, the water moves only by convection and sitting a full corny on the seat is perfect so that it will be 90% submerged but not floating.