Sour beer question

[m_c_zero]

I have a very simple recipe sour going and it has been sitting for about 4 months now. It's in a bottling bucket and I pulled a sample a few days ago and the sample was not sour. Pushing on the lid, the smell coming from the airlock smells sour. It seems to me that the top of the beer may be sour but the bottom is not. Any ideas? I know sours are supposed to take upwards of 6 months for a sour so I may just be being impatient. Thanks!

 

[Quaker]

Far more details needed: recipe including yeast and bacteria strain(s) plus description of the process to help troubleshoot your batch.

To roughly quote Lauren from New Belgian "you can't smell sour", you can only pick up aromas that remind you of foods or drinks which are sour.

 

[coypoo]

The pH wouldnt be stratified in a bucket like that either. Additionally, a bottling bucket isnt likely to be the best choice for long-term aging due to the risk of oxygen ingress

 

[m_c_zero]

So the recipe is really simple. I used 7lbs of wheat LME and around 2oz of cheesy old hops that I had been holding onto forever. I originally used Safale US-05 for about 2-3 days for the initial fermentation and then used dregs from a bottle of Paradox sour ale (https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29972/236789/).

The smell coming off of the airlock is very reminiscent of sour apples. It definitely doesn't smell like an ale yeast fermented beer. I agree the bucket isn't the best choice but from what I have read the oxygenation risk is nominal.

 

[Quaker]

If the only sour bugs were dregs, and the US05 had a healthy head start, then it isn't a surprise. Dregs tend to be a nice addition for complexity to a commercial sour blend pitch, but without being built up in a starter, they will struggle in that already active sacch environment. Do you want sour or funky? If funky, I'd build up a starter of a commercial Brett strain or strains and pitch while active. If you want sour, I'd recommend making a 1 gallon batch soured with LAB. Then add that in once overly sour, along with a Brett strain.

My 2 cents

 

[m_c_zero]

Hmm, that's a bummer. I thought that the yeast would do the initial fermentation then the bugs would take over and finish the job. So you think the yeast may have overtaken the bugs?

I'm willing to let it sit for quite more time and see what develops. The sample I tried wasn't even funky. It just tasted like a wheat beer. Do you think shaking the fermenter would help?

 

[RevKev]

It's my opinion that the dregs unless they were built up in a starter and we're actually viable were completely taken over by the monster that is Safale.

If you'll be aging it for 6+ months better get it in a carboy the souring won't happen overnight. Also what is the gravity as of right now. May even be too late, I agree with brewing a small 1 gallon batch souring and then blending.

 

[Quaker]

Yes, yeast dominated it. I would not shake it, that'll just oxygenate it; nothing to be gained. I don't expect it to change significantly without additional bugs which are active being added. I agree with checking the gravity. There might not be much left for new bugs to chew on anyways though.

Buy Old Sock's American Sours book to get some fundamentals and try again.

 

[m_c_zero]

Thanks for the info. I'll chalk this one up to a learning experience.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Or pitch more dregs! Around Thanksgiving I brewed a split batch Saison fermented out completely with WLP568 and then dregs of two Jester King brews pitched into one carboy. The clean version is already bottled and quite delicious. The JK version has had a nice little pellicle that took about a month or two to develop. If the bacteria and/or Brett were active I would expect you'd see a pellicle after 4 months, especially in a bucket where there will be some oxygen present. Buy more sours and pitch more dregs or buy a commercial strain of what you want and pitch it in. There's still plenty for the bugs to work on if it just tastes like a wheat beer.

 

[botigol]

Another option would be to add lactic acid. They say that it isn't the same complexity of sour, but it could get you close enough to where you want to be with this particular beer and it is instantaneous.

 

[sky4meplease]

What is the gravity of this beer now?
There should still be plenty for new Brett cultures to work on.
You basically lost the last 4 months assuming the culture you pitched during primary hasn't continued to work during that time but certainly all is not lost.
You may want to pitch Lacto along with Brett otherwise your sourness will only be perceived and not actual sour in terms of acidity.
Also get it out of that bucket and into a well used barrel or glass and turn the lights out for a year.