Skip Oxygenation?

[whovous]

I've just returned to brewing after a three year hiatus. I am pretty sure I made a number of mistakes, but want to ask about just one. I did not oxygenate following the boil. I recirculated the wort in my Anvil Foundry 10.5 through a cheap plate chiller for a very long time before transferring to the fermenter. I figure that took the place of oxygenation and so I skipped that step. Does that make sense?

Normally, I figure I'd answer my own question on how fast and how vigorously it began fermenting, but I threw in another mistake that seems to take away that option. San Diego Super yeast says to ferment at 65-68 degrees. I chilled to 62F and did not catch my mistake for roughly a day. Nothing happened at 62. Fermentation is happening now, but it is a little soon to judge the vigor of same.

Oh, one more thing. I projected pretty low efficiency from my Anvil Foundry 10.5 because I remembered efficiency problems in the past. But I also tried several things to increase efficiency and they worked. As a result, what I was projecting as a blonde with a potential ABV of 4.7% now has a potential of 7.6%. White Labs says I should either use a starter or two packets of yeast for that ABV. I did neither.

Thoughts?

 

[Bassman2003]

Beginning the ferment at 62F is not a problem. Always try to go upward in temperature with yeast. So starting a few degree below and letting is rise is normal industry practice.

Lack of oxygenation just makes the ferment more difficult on your yeast. They need oxygen to reproduce when they get thrown into your wort. So a lack of O2 means you will have fewer than optimal yeast cells to do all of the work in your fermentation. So yes, oxygenate every batch of beer!

That is a huge ABV jump. You can always add water in the boil kettle to dilute. either way, this batch might be a write off or just underattenuated. Take notes and apply the changes for the next batch.

 

[whovous]

I understand that oxygen is important and my prior practice was to use a stone and an O2 tank for about 30 seconds prior to pitching. But didn't the lengthy post-boil recirculation through the chiller restore any oxygen? After three years off my brewing brain is more than a little rusty.

 

[whovous]

Is there any benefit at this point to oxygenate now and/or track down and pitch another packet of yeast.

 

[BrewerofBeers]

Is there any benefit at this point to oxygenate now and/or track down and pitch another packet of yeast

Aerating now, after fermentation has started, is inadvisable due to the chance of diacetal formation happening and also oxidation before the yeast can consume all of the dissolved oxygen.

I don't think you're going to have much of a problem with yourl skipping oxygenating just yet. It might make a difference but those yeast are going to finish the job no problem because it sounds like you used a new fresh yeast pack. Your delayed yeast reaction is not as likely to do with the pitch temperature as it is with that high OG (sometimes it's more like OMG, am I right?).

If you'd like, choose to keep fermentation temperature low in the range and steady, and as fermentation is completing allow it to rise to 68 to 72 Fahrenheit and hold it there for 4 to 8 days. That will help your yeast develop good flavors despite that high OG and possible aeration issue.

How many gallons is this batch, and how are you calculating your mash efficiency? Just curious because that is a whopping change!

Always try to go upward in temperature with yeast.

Can you explain this? Not the reasoning why, but the bio activity of the yeast and the result on the beer? Example case: Pitching at 75F and dropping to 70 in 12 hours for a Belgian.

 

[Bassman2003]

It is just a rule of thumb. The yeast perform better when they are not lowered in temperature. The temp drop can make them shut down to an extent. This is not absolute, and some strains seem to be be affected more, but this is a general brewing forum and this is a general best practice. Sort of like giving your yeast plenty of O2 at pitching. Yes the cells will endure but best case is to give them what they want/need for your best outcome.

If the yeast are active and the drop is from warm to not as warm there would probably be no issue. Many Belgian yeasts will shut down towards the end of fermentation if the temperature is lowered. I would be pulling from thin air if I provided a true explanation. I do not have time right now to look it up in the Chris White book!

 

[Broken Crow]

I did a lot of reading on here and, especially after a long thread on here about a year ago that I can't now find, that was specifically about all the conditions and schemes for oxygenation, the impression I walked away with was this: Oxygenate your starter if you're using liquid yeast and that's generally adequate,..If using dry yeast, just sloshing while filling and then shaking up your fermenter is usually adequate. Just to try everything and learn my own way, I followed examples and tried a stone with an air-pump, a stone with pure O2, and of course; just sitting on the floor and shaking carboy, Fermonster, Sanke..whatever, and for the English-style brews that I usually make the slosh and shake works perfectly as well as being the easiest with dry yeast, and with a starter, I fully oxygenate the starter and just slosh and shake the fermenter some. My notes are a mess so I can't look this up, but for a non-english style I did a couple times, it worked better with pure O2.
Given you have experience and are returning, I'm sure you'll soon feel your way back around, but hey; Try it all and see what works best for you and the brews you are doing.

 

[Bassman2003]

I understand that oxygen is important and my prior practice was to use a stone and an O2 tank for about 30 seconds prior to pitching. But didn't the lengthy post-boil recirculation through the chiller restore any oxygen? After three years off my brewing brain is more than a little rusty.

It depends on your chilling method and how agitated the wort is. Compared to pure O2, every other method is fairly low in dissolved oxygen. If you can, I would stick with your previous approach as it is a proven winner.

 

[whovous]

How many gallons is this batch, and how are you calculating your mash efficiency? Just curious because that is a whopping change!

I came up just short of five gallons. I use BeerSmith3 and my notes from the last time I made this indicated I'd achieved only 60% efficiency, so I decided to build the current recipe (based on Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde) on that assumption. The Anvil Foundry 10.5 is prone to low efficiency if you are not careful, or if you are just sloppy, like me. BeerSmith says I hit 93% based on the post-brew numbers that I fed to it. I am pretty sure that is wrong as well, but I am not prepared to fully explain that right now.

 

[whovous]

It depends on your chilling method and how agitated the wort is. Compared to pure O2, every other method is fairly low in dissolved oxygen. If you can, I would stick with your previous approach as it is a proven winner.

Yeah, it was a pretty weird brew day. I didn't do a good job of making sure everything was ready beforehand, so I wound up spending a lot of time fixing and or finding things. I was pretty tired by pitch time, and I was not sure just where I'd hidden my stone and O2 tank (nor if there was any O2 in it!), so I lazily decided all that recirculation just had to be good enough.

This entire brew has been intended as a practice run. My stepson is getting married in October and I've agreed to name a beer after his fiancée for the rehearsal dinner. Better to make the 7.6% version of a Blonde Ale now than then!

 

[day_trippr]

I recirculated the wort in my Anvil Foundry 10.5 through a cheap plate chiller for a very long time before transferring to the fermenter. I figure that took the place of oxygenation and so I skipped that step. Does that make sense?

Hopefully once the beer side of a plate chiller is flooded it provides zero oxygen pickup, so the only possible oxygenation that might occur during recirculation through a PC is at the wort surface in the kettle, and unless you really agitate the heck out of the kettle, the pickup is going to be minimal at best, surely nowhere near 8 ppm...

 

[Bassman2003]

Yes, a 7.6 percenter would liven up the festivities! Brewing is a great hobby but it does take some thought and planning to be good at it. I hear ya and I am always trying to keep it fun rather than a task to improve etc... So good that this was a dry run and I am sure you will hit your numbers next brew.

 

[whovous]

day_trippr,
Well, it seems pretty obvious now with hindsight, but when you are really tired and wanting the brew day to end...

 

[BrewerofBeers]

I don't think much if any damage is done yet. If was a nice, fresh yeast pack. I say hold out for a strong beer with light body, and do your best to control fermentation and oxidation going forward. And because the OG changed so much, rethink your additions, such as adding dry hops to balance the expected high ABV.

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe the best part of this is that WL PurePitch packs keep the yeast they contain extremely fresh and viable. As long as they were stored and transported cold, viability only drops 3-6% per month. So if the pack was only 3-4 months old (homebrew store average), viability would still be in the 76-88% range. And vitality is expected to be similarly high too.

Let it ride and keep her engaged by raising the temps a few degrees as she nears completion. She's very likely going to be just alright.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just thought of something.
If fermentation hasn't started yet, due to being kept too cold, you could still safely oxygenate, but time runs out.

For example, high gravity beers are typically oxygenated twice. First at pitching, and again, 12-18 hours later, but before fermentation has started. The latter is hard to know, but one can look for the typical telltales.

 

[day_trippr]

I wouldn't panic and do anything crazy now that will be regretted later. Leave the beer alone, it'll most likely come out fine given enough time...

Cheers!

 

[whovous]

I am happy to report that it is now bubbling happily in the Flex. How it turns out remains to be seen, but I am fairly sure it will be beer.

 

[MicroMickey]

Oxygenation is VERY important. You can get by without it but it will cost you by lengthy and incomplete fermentation.

Here's more on the subject.
https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/oxygen-injection-of-wort/

 

[whovous]

As of this morning I've gone from 1.0568 to 1.011. I've thrown in the remaining cryohops and plan on cold crashing tomorrow AM before leaving town for a week. With luck it will add a bit more flavor and aroma to balance the excess alcohol.

 

[whovous]

I am sure everyone has been holding their breath on this one - - The beer came out drinkable. The bittering was pleasant, the body was moderately full and if you pay close attention you can tell the beer is trying to be at least a little bit juicy. I won't try this particular experiment again, but neither am I going to throw it out!

 

[sibelman]

didn't the lengthy post-boil recirculation through the chiller restore any oxygen?

Not sure how recirculating would increase oxygen, unless the wort is splashed into the kettle on its return from the chiller. I suppose some oxygen will diffuse through the (presumably silicone) tubing...

 

[sibelman]

Oxygenation is VERY important. You can get by without it but it will cost you by lengthy and incomplete fermentation.

My experience does not confirm this. I'd say, oxygenation is at least somewhat important and may improve fermentation, but YMMV.

 

[BrewZer]

Oh, one more thing. I projected pretty low efficiency from my Anvil Foundry 10.5 because I remembered efficiency problems in the past. But I also tried several things to increase efficiency and they worked. As a result, what I was projecting as a blonde with a potential ABV of 4.7% now has a potential of 7.6%. White Labs says I should either use a starter or two packets of yeast for that ABV. I did neither.

Thoughts?

 

[mggray87]

I wouldn't panic and do anything crazy now that will be regretted later. Leave the beer alone, it'll most likely come out fine given enough time...

Cheers!

a big beer like you 1.107 stout. areyou oxygenating at pitch AND the next day?

 

[day_trippr]

I do apply straight O2 at .5 lpm for 4 minutes through a Williams Brewing .5 micron wand while stirring the pitch.
But I never add O2 to anything after 6 hours from pitching...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

a big beer like you 1.107 stout. areyou oxygenating at pitch AND the next day?

For big beers, the consensus is to re-oxygenate 12-18 hours after the first oxygenation, and pitching the yeast, but making sure fermentation hasn't started yet.
That last condition can be hard to verify at times, but big beers (1.090+) tend to take longer to get started. I'd therefore aim to re-oxygenate at 12 hours, to make sure it not fermenting yet. You can probably do it even earlier, perhaps as far back as 6 hours, but you might have entered the zone of diminishing returns.

Now I often have lift off in a 1.065 beer within 3-4 hours, pitching an active vitality starter. The 1.090s and up are much tardier, even when pitching big and active!

 

[mggray87]

I do apply straight O2 at .5 lpm for 4 minutes through a Williams Brewing .5 micron wand while stirring the pitch.
But I never add O2 to anything after 6 hours from pitching...

Cheers!

I usually set my spike o2 to 1/4lpm and do 30 seconds a gallon. So about 3min or 3:30. But for this one I was gonna do a solid 6-7 min. Slow and steady