Simple Yeast Storage Procedure
- Thread starter WoodlandBrew
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I was ball parking the math and had added 1 oz of 100% glycerin to a 225 ml bottle topped up the rest of the way with slurry. Admittedly this was 13% solution. It was also capped with crown caps. Then it has shaken to thoroughly mix in the glycerin. I placed it in the fridge for 2 days before moving it to the freezer at -20 c ( chest freezer with no defrost cycle)This was however me harvesting from a batch that I had previously harvested in the same manner minus the glycerin and stored in the fridge for a month before reuse and that batch did fine. It was from a 4.4% 12 ibu 12 srm batch and that one worked fine
I am thinking this may be your problem based on the math.
29.6mL of glycerine added to 225mL of distilled water (I assume) gives you a total volume of 254.6mL of glycerine/water.
29.6/254.6 = 11.6% by volume
Which you then further diluted with slurry, so your final concentration was lower than that.
I follow the guidelines in THIS article and it hasn't done me wrong (after my initial failure of course)
It basically starts out with 20% (I have even seen 25% in some literature) glycerine/water mixture and then added to slurry to get a 10-15% final concentration.
I have used vials of WY1318 and WY3711 (4-5 total brews) activated with a starter and they have taken off within 6-12 hours after pitch.
YMMV
I am thinking this may be your problem based on the math.
29.6mL of glycerine added to 225mL of distilled water (I assume) gives you a total volume of 254.6mL of glycerine/water.
29.6/254.6 = 11.6% by volume
Which you then further diluted with slurry, so your final concentration was lower than that.
I follow the guidelines in THIS article and it hasn't done me wrong (after my initial failure of course)
It basically starts out with 20% (I have even seen 25% in some literature) glycerine/water mixture and then added to slurry to get a 10-15% final concentration.
I have used vials of WY1318 and WY3711 (4-5 total brews) activated with a starter and they have taken off within 6-12 hours after pitch.
YMMV
you're reading me wrong. I placed 29 ml of glycerin into an empty 225 ml bottle, and then topped up to the 225 ml volume with slurry. so 29 ml glycerin, 196 ml of slurry, which settled out to about 130 ml of dense slurry. So 29ml glycerin of a total of 225 ml of volume 12.8% glycerin in the final mixture.
I did see s low start with this yeast when it was dry pitched, but I had attributed that to it being my first 50F lager fermentaion and that the wort could absorb far more carbonation, as well as slower temps leading to more sluggish yeast activitiy. but this time I'm basically at Ale temps. so, I'll check again this afternoon, it will have been about 48 hours post pitch.
Ha ha, I was literally just coming back to edit my previous post because that explanation occurred to me.
HOWEVER, this still makes me wonder.
You have 13% by volume in your method, but I wonder if that makes the actual glycerine/water ratio MUCH higher than expected. That article mentions that concentrations higher than 15% can actually be detrimental to yeast health.
Like I said, use that article that I posted as a guideline.
1 part glycerine to 4 parts distilled water (20%).
Put slurry in 50mL vials and top off with the 20% glycerine and you will be golden.
1 part glycerine to 4 parts distilled water (20%).
Put slurry in 50mL vials and top off with the 20% glycerine and you will be golden.
well, I'll definitely be trying this again, and we'll see if either the S-04 yeast, or the Vermont Ale yeast that I did on separate occasions stored any better. Who knows, I may be picking up some DME to actually use the stirplate I built and proof some of the stuff that I still have.
On that topic, I always make a small starter to wake up the little buggers from their frozen slumber.
It's just my preference.
TurnipGreen
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for the I for on this sticky. I successfully saved yeast using this method quite a few times. It's really fun and like all thinks brewing can be as simple or complex as you want to make it. I'm not doing anything too fancy. Usually just racking to a secondary and harvesting fresh slurry, storing it in the fridge and using it in within a month or so.
I have a batch that I was not planning to save from but I'm wondering if I still can. It's been sitting in the basement for about a month in the primary. Temperatures where controled for about two weeks (to hit the active fermentation) but over the last two weeks have been in the mid 60s and waiting to be bottled.
So, I'm certain there's still some good yeast in there, but is it worth salvaging? From my point of view if I need to make a starter I might as well get fresh yeast to avoid the gamble. But if there is still supper healthy fresh yeast like when I do it after a week of fermentation this could save me having to make a starter and in the future save a step of racking my regular easy drinkers that I want to save yeast from.
Any one have experience like this?
I have a batch that I was not planning to save from but I'm wondering if I still can. It's been sitting in the basement for about a month in the primary. Temperatures where controled for about two weeks (to hit the active fermentation) but over the last two weeks have been in the mid 60s and waiting to be bottled.
So, I'm certain there's still some good yeast in there, but is it worth salvaging? From my point of view if I need to make a starter I might as well get fresh yeast to avoid the gamble. But if there is still supper healthy fresh yeast like when I do it after a week of fermentation this could save me having to make a starter and in the future save a step of racking my regular easy drinkers that I want to save yeast from.
Any one have experience like this?
I've harvested and then repitched yeast that's been in primary 5-6 weeks without any issues. That said, it's also good practice to make a small starter for yeast that's been stored at room temp for that long. I wouldn't bother buying a fresh batch as long as your sanitation process on this batch was good.
I pitched some of my "failed?" w-34/70 into a starter made of Malta Goya on my stirplate (first time I've used it for anything other than stirring water) and I'll be using that to see if they were totally toast, or just mostly toast. I used Malta because I didn't want to shell out criminal prices for DME locally, and i didn't want to spend a lot of time kicking off a starter I wasn't likely to actually use. SG of the Malta is calculated at 1.037 but man oh man is it dark. I wish it weren't so dark. Maybe I'll invest in some DME, or save some leftover wort and freeze it next time I brew.
TurnipGreen
Well-Known Member
I pitched last night and I don't see any visible signs of activity. Every other time I've use this amount of saved yeast, activity has been visible within a couple hours. I'm trying my best to wait until tomorrow to start worrying.
First signs of activity in 12 -24 hours is ideal for me. Don't start worrying unless you pass the two day mark without activity. To clarify my earlier point though, smaller amounts of fresh, active yeast is better than large amounts of old yeast.
And today I checked the gravity on that starter and it was at 1.014. So clearly some of those cells made it through freezing and thawing. So I guess my last batch really got fermented with two strains of yeast
thunderwagn
Well-Known Member
Man, are Mr Malty viability rates just way out of whack? I've got about 800 ml of slurry that's 2 months old, and Malty's viability rate is like 10%. That seems incredibly low.
Yes, Mr Malty is overly conservative. I never use it anymore. You can estimate about 15% cell loss per month. So at 2 months yours is somewhere near 70%. If you bring it out of cold storage, crack the lid and air bubbles form in a few minues, viability is likely higher still.
Help me make a judgement call guys. I pulled a jar of 3711 slurry out of the fridge thats about a year old. Top 1/8 inch layer is dead (dark cells). Under the lid there's a ring around the lip that's either yeast or a bug/lacto. I harvested this strain from a commercial beer ages ago and it always shows a very mild lacto film after fermentation, but never shows in the final beer. That said, the jar and top layer of contents look a bit sketchy. All that stuff around the rim is definitely new growth. Smells just fine though!
Anyone experienced this? Use or toss it?
View attachment 1469900666912.jpg
View attachment 1469900678044.jpg
Anyone experienced this? Use or toss it?
View attachment 1469900666912.jpg
View attachment 1469900678044.jpg
David_Trucks
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
- Messages
- 386
- Reaction score
- 63
spittybug
Well-Known Member
Very little harm in planning a day or two early and 'risking' a bit of dme for a starter.... if it looks good, brew away. If not, little lost.
Thanks guys. I did the right thing and tossed it yesterday.
Sunday, I used yeast I captured on January 3rd. I did a starter of about 1200 ml and then did a vitality starter (about 550 ml, starting 4 hours before pitching.) The yeast took off pretty quickly and will be done at day 3.
Hi All,
I have read through all these pages in the past and this may have been answered already but its brew day today i.e. time sensitive... I am going to just dump the slurry in, no starter. When I take yeast out of fridge to warm to room temp, do I decant as soon as it comes out of fridge, or 3-4 hours later when its at room temp?
thanks!!
I have read through all these pages in the past and this may have been answered already but its brew day today i.e. time sensitive... I am going to just dump the slurry in, no starter. When I take yeast out of fridge to warm to room temp, do I decant as soon as it comes out of fridge, or 3-4 hours later when its at room temp?
thanks!!
Decant as soon as you pull it out of the fridge. It warms up quicker that way.
How old is that slurry and how much do you have? How large is your brew batch today and what's its gravity? Lager or Ale?
Take a look at this yeast calculator and make an educated guess at how many cells you have vs. what you need.
stever1000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 822
- Reaction score
- 49
I did something similar, but used yeast over a year old (no date, but sometime in 2015) and used leftover wort that didn't fit in my fermenter (1.040 magically!) Left it on the stirplate for 24 hours, crashed it in the fridge, then used it in my next batch. It took off within hours and was bubbling solidly for the last 2 days.
IslandLizard
This is about 125ml slurry from Conan harvested and fridged yesterday. Its going into a 1.065 2.5gal batch. Thanks for the calculator, I will use it in the future! The biggest reason I was asking today was that after my yeast sat on the counter for 90 minutes it started to look like the yeast from post #224 of this thread, with lots of gunk rising to the surface, stuff floating up top like a sea sponge. It made me think I should have decanted ASAP. I let it sit and eventually all of the top floating berg just settled back down to the bottom. I decanted and pitched after about 4 1/2 hours of counter time.
This is about 125ml slurry from Conan harvested and fridged yesterday. Its going into a 1.065 2.5gal batch. Thanks for the calculator, I will use it in the future! The biggest reason I was asking today was that after my yeast sat on the counter for 90 minutes it started to look like the yeast from post #224 of this thread, with lots of gunk rising to the surface, stuff floating up top like a sea sponge. It made me think I should have decanted ASAP. I let it sit and eventually all of the top floating berg just settled back down to the bottom. I decanted and pitched after about 4 1/2 hours of counter time.
Yeah, that's another reason to decant ASAP when you take it out of the fridge. Some yeast rises like that.
Your 1-day young harvested yeast slurry is as fresh as can be. Ready to pitch! After 3-4 weeks in the fridge I'd start thinking about making another starter or at least a vitality starter.
Another thing I have learned is to always smell and taste the decanted beer coming off the slurry for any off flavors or sourness. If it's off or suspect, you have time to find another (yeast) solution or decide to brew another day.
mgr_stl
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
- Messages
- 464
- Reaction score
- 26
I'm doing this a little different than most, because I'm starting with a new package of yeast as opposed to using slurry from after a brew day. Does this photo seem like I have a reasonable yeast cake on the bottom of my cold crashed 2L starter? It looks small to me. I cold crashed it about 36 hours after starting the starter.
I pitched half of a package of omega OYL-052 into my starter in hopes of freezing this and then making another starter with the other half for my brew day this Friday.
So from here, I guess I'll decant. If I leave about the same amount of beer as yeast and then swirl it, would I add 10% of the total volume glycerin and then freeze it?
https://goo.gl/photos/LHsYGogyMd7hQSSm9
I pitched half of a package of omega OYL-052 into my starter in hopes of freezing this and then making another starter with the other half for my brew day this Friday.
So from here, I guess I'll decant. If I leave about the same amount of beer as yeast and then swirl it, would I add 10% of the total volume glycerin and then freeze it?
https://goo.gl/photos/LHsYGogyMd7hQSSm9
stever1000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 822
- Reaction score
- 49
My yeast slurry has a lot of trub in it (the whole carboy filled about 4+ quarts). How can I separate the excess trub without losing the more valuable yeast? I don't want to pitch 1/2 quart of slurry having a small amount of total yeast in it
My yeast slurry has a lot of trub in it (the whole carboy filled about 4+ quarts). How can I separate the excess trub without losing the more valuable yeast? I don't want to pitch 1/2 quart of slurry having a small amount of total yeast in it
As long as this is a standard all-grain batch, the trub isn't a concern. There's no benefit to rinsing the yeast, and if anything the extra handling puts it at greater risk of picking up something undesirable. Just swirl, portion out what you need into sterilized jars and dump the rest. That said, if this was a mega-hopped beer or you used fruit or something in primary, then you probably don't want to reuse this yeast.
stever1000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 822
- Reaction score
- 49
Okay, so despite how much trub I have in each jar, there should be enough yeast in each?
What about....clumps? I swirled it thoroughly and clumps still make it into the jars
Okay, so despite how much trub I have in each jar, there should be enough yeast in each?
What about....clumps? I swirled it thoroughly and clumps still make it into the jars
Based on OP's research into this, you should have about 1.5B cells/ml in that slurry, so you'll need only 130 ml (1/2 cup) for a standard 5 gallon batch as long as it's relatively fresh. You can just direct pitch it up to about a month in cold storage. You'll lose approximately 15% viability per month, so I like to make small starter for anything over 3 weeks.
stever1000
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2014
- Messages
- 822
- Reaction score
- 49
I usually pitch the full 1/2 quart jar because I have so much trub. I'm hoping with my hop spider and BIAB bag I will have less making it into the fermenter in the future.
I have had good luck doing this after storing for a full year, but I did make a starter for that one...
I have had good luck doing this after storing for a full year, but I did make a starter for that one...
Even just straining out your hop and break material on its way from kettle to fermentor should minimize the junk by quite a bit. Just wondering why you have more trub than normal.
thunderwagn
Well-Known Member
I've saved yeast from stouts and mega hopped beers and used them over with no discernable difference in the next batch. Tomorrow I'm using slurry in a pale ale that I saved from a stout. It's easy to decant after a few weeks in the fridge, and pitch into a starter.
Do these look like they contain yeast or is it just trub? I dumped the trub from yesterday's bottling session into two 2l or 2qt jars and just left it overnight in the fridge. Should I shake them? Pour of the beer? jJust keep it or dump it? Confused sorry.
VikeMan
It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2010
- Messages
- 5,853
- Reaction score
- 5,970
There's definitely yeast in there. Doing a rinse would help separate it cleanly from the trub.
I use wide mouth mason jar, plastic lids with the silicone gasket. Drill a hole in the lid and use a airlock gasket in the lid.
Photo shows lager fermenting and a yeast from a prior brew in the mason jar I will use in a few weeks. Picture may look a bit grainy as the items are inside a beverage center and photo was taken thru the beverage center door.
Photo shows lager fermenting and a yeast from a prior brew in the mason jar I will use in a few weeks. Picture may look a bit grainy as the items are inside a beverage center and photo was taken thru the beverage center door.
Brewer dad
Well-Known Member
Newbie question. I bottled last night but didn't get to boiling my jars and lids. Instead I soaked them in Star San(they were otherwise clean), I'm assuming this should be sufficient?
Similar threads
