simcoe dry hop IPL - critique needed please

[bkboiler]

Hey guys/gals,

Trying my hand at my first lager since temps are dropping low and my ferm chamber doesn't have a way to heat (yet).

Please let me know your thoughts on the below recipe. I'm aiming for a nice piney aroma and resiny mouthfeel. Hoping it'll finish dry and the crispness of the yeast and carbonation will make it a good winter lager (despite no spices in the beer). I know this yeast is said to finish very crisp, but the times I've had Czechvar I thought it had a very slight spicy yeast character when compared to Pilsner Urquell.

Constructive criticism welcomed.

From Beersmith:

piney the lager
All Grain
India Pale Lager
Batch Size: 2.75 gal
Bitterness: 37.4 IBUs
ABV: 5.0%
Color: 4.1 SRM
OG: 1.046
FG: 1.008

Mash Profile: Single Infusion, 152F, batch sparge

Ferment--
55F for 5 days
rise to 67 over 7 days
chill to 32 for gelatin
keg and lager for 2 weeks

3.5lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)
0.25lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
0.125lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)
0.3 oz Magnum [14.0%] - First Wort Hop
0.25lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM)
0.5 oz Simcoe [13.0%] - Steep 0 min
1 pkgs Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP802)---in 1L starter
0.5 oz Simcoe [13.0%] - Dry Hop 10 days

carb in keg to 2.6 volumes

 

[sptaylor70]

IPLs are supposed to be like IPAs, with greater opportunity for the malt and hops to shine. With that in mind, and since you say that want something wintery, I would drop the pale malt and go with a mixture of Vienna and Munich, say 2.5 and 2 lbs., respectively. To help develop malt complexity, I would go for a long boil, maybe 90 to 120 minutes. I would also replace the white sugar with turbinado or demerara to get a little molasses flavor.

I cannot get the IBUs to come out anywhere near 35 - I get 27 if I assume a 10-gallon boil, which I would guess is not your intent. To mirror an IPA, you should probably be above 40 IBU, which you can achieve, assuming a 3.5 to 4 gallon boil, if you increase your Magnum FWH addition to 0.5 oz. and push the Simcoe flame-out addition back five minutes.

Interesting idea. Please post what you do and how it turns out.

 

[bkboiler]

thanks! I like your ideas! I'm just using Beersmith for the IBU calculation, and need to have a look at my magnum's AA and adjust the additions before I brew.

I just realized that my simcoe is still in the mail and with slow shipping, so I may brew a trial Vienna lager this weekend to test out the grain bill with some hallertauer and an easy lager strain like s-23...

I'm definitely looking to not have a totally plain malt bill so I like the idea of upping the Vienna and Munich percentages...

I think the high carbonation and way this yeast can finish really dry is gonna be a trick to balance with some malty roundness especially with an aggressive dry hop in a medium alcohol brew.

 

[bkboiler]

I just saw that Ballast Point's Fathom IPL is 7% and 70IBU's.
I think I'll have to grab a pint when I'm there (Home Brew Mart is my LHBS), and think about what flavor I am going for.

 

[hanuswalrus]

I don't have much experience w/ lagers, but I do w/ dry hopping. I do similar size batches (3 gal) and typically dry hop 2-3 oz to get a pronounced hop aroma. I would suggest upping the dry hop a bit. Not to mention the flavor/aroma hops in the boil. I like the grain bill, but the hop bill does not suggest that this beer is an IPL

 

[sptaylor70]

If it matters to you, S-23 is a koelsch yeast (= WY2575 and WLP003). W34/70 is a lager yeast - same as WY2124 and WLP830 - and makes a great Vienna Lager.

 

[mblanks2]

My .02 cents
I know this yeast is said to finish very crisp, but the times I've had Czechvar I thought it had a very slight spicy yeast character when compared to Pilsner Urquell. (Spicy/Peppery may have come from the Saaz hops not necessarily the yeast)

Mash Profile: Single Infusion, 152F, batch sparge (If you want this to be dry try a mash at 149*F)

Ferment--
55F for 5 days (My experience with this yeast is a 72 hour lag time)
rise to 67 over 7 days (Let this ferment to approx. 90% completion before starting your D-rest)
chill to 32 for gelatin
keg and lager for 2 weeks

3.5lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM)
0.25lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
0.25lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
0.125lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)
0.3 oz Magnum [14.0%] - First Wort Hop
0.25lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM)
0.5 oz Simcoe [13.0%] - Steep 0 min
1 pkgs Czech Budejovice Lager (White Labs #WLP802)---in 1L starter (Be prepared for a Sulfur bomb - This is a great yeast but produces a huge amount of sulfur)
0.5 oz Simcoe [13.0%] - Dry Hop 10 days (I would move this to Whirlpool Addition)

 

[bkboiler]

thanks for all the input, probably gonna wait till next Saturday to brew this since I wanna step up the starter twice to avoid sulfur.
I modified the recipe to up the gravity, IBUs and simplify the malt bill a bit. Changed some hops to hopefully achieve the piney, spicy aroma I'm going for and avoid any citrusy notes.
Hopefully this turns out to be a good winter lager. I will post when I brew it!

 

[mblanks2]

thanks for all the input, probably gonna wait till next Saturday to brew this since I wanna step up the starter twice to avoid sulfur.
I modified the recipe to up the gravity, IBUs and simplify the malt bill a bit. Changed some hops to hopefully achieve the piney, spicy aroma I'm going for and avoid any citrusy notes.
Hopefully this turns out to be a good winter lager. I will post when I brew it!

You won't avoid sulfur smell with this yeast. You just wont.
Build your starter based off the mrmalty website and you should be fine.

 

[bkboiler]

just brewed this today.
came out good.
I need a new thermometer though...realized mine is miscalibrated by around 10F...so I ended up mashing a bit lower than intended, and so missed the OG by a few points...
just boiled a bit longer and also added a little bit of DME to compensate.
ended up hitting the OG all said and done...will report back after fermentation is done.
what I brewed today:
http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/975575/piney-the-lager

 

[bkboiler]

just dry hopped with 1.5oz of chinook for a 2.5g batch and raised temp to 65F or so for the diacetyl rest for the next week then gonna lager it...

 

[bkboiler]

Cracked a bottle of this for the first time today after the dry hop, diacetyl rest and extended lagering in the bottle.
I added sugar when bottling, but forgot about leaving it at room temp to carbonate.
so it's been lagering at 41F for the last two weeks, I just brought it up to room temp last night to continue carbonating, but am gonna give a few bottles away so I wanted to taste it.
Tasting notes:
very crisp yeast character. no detectable sulfur at all. finished very dry (measured 1.008 FG). no off flavors from the yeast or otherwise for that matter.
residual sweetness from corn sugar will be consumed by yeast when fully carbonated, but malt body is very nice due to the munich, not lacking body at all to stand up to the smooth but substantial bitterness.
pine note is slight on the nose, almost grapefruity. maybe a hop stand next time will benefit the aroma. more hops, more better.
we'll see how I feel once it's fully carbonated, but next time I may dial back the malt backbone and color a tiny bit by reducing the Munich.

 

[bkboiler]

many thanks to all who contributed to this recipe!!
much appreciated!