Should I wash my yeast.

[Redpappy]

friday is bottle/brew day for me. My day starts by cleaning and botteling. I have a 1 gal nut brown that I will be starting with. I am planning to do a 1 gal SMaSH and I was thinking of using the yeast from my nut brown. Should I wash the yeast first, or just poor half of the slurry into my new batch? It will be probably be 9 hours after I bottle that I will be needing the yeast, or should I just scratch it and use fresh yeast?

 

[homebrewer_99]

I'd wash it. I wash all my yeast from new batches at least 3 times. If I don't get around to using it it didn't me cost anything.

 

[murphyslaw]

I would just reuse it without washing. This convinced me washing was unnecessary: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/simple-yeast-storage-procedure.519995/

 

[millsbrew]

Agreed on not washing since your dregs aren’t full of hops. Further, buy a 1L Erlenmeyer flask and just build up excess yeast to use on consecutive batches. I tend to use yeast 4 or 5 times this way. i.e. - buy British yeast, build it up, pitch majority of it into a British bitter, then build up again, pitch into a British ipa, then build and pitch into a British stout. Saves you a nice chunk of change.

 

[Kent88]

I'd wash it. I use the C&B method and get a few jars out of it. I've never actually needed a few jars, but I like the idea that if I decided to brew a bunch I could use it.

 

[BitterSweetBrews]

Since it is a small batch I would be concerned that you might impart some taste from the previous batch. I think I would wash it with a couple cups of sterile water, let it sit for a 10-20 minutes, decant the liquid and top stratification layer. Crash that for a few hours, decant the liquid again and pitch what's left. I would save the decanted portions and let them settle in case you need some more in a day or two if it doesn't take off. Keep them for a future batch once they settle in a few days. I might even make a small starter from some of your wort and pitch it the next morning.

 

[RM-MN]

I'd divide the yeast and trub (well mixed) into 4 containers. One of the containers would be pitched into the next batch while the other 3 are capped and refrigerated for future use. Be sure the containers are well sanitized and cap them loosely so any CO2 pressure can excape.

 

[Miraculix]

Think about it this way, the only valid reason to wash yeast would be the flavour impact which might be there, or might be not based on the small amount of fermented beer that would also be introduced to the new brew.

Against washing speaks the fact that you would risk infection. The yeast in the beer is in a very stable environment which has its own self defense mechanisms, alcohol, ph, co2 etc. By removing this, you are exposing the yeast to the environment and the bugs. You would also remove nutrients which could help keeping a higher percentage of the yeast alive for a longer time.

If the yeast is not coming from a stout/porter or fruit beer, not washing it is a no brainer for me.

 

[LLBeanJ]

No way I'd wash it, but then again, there is no scenario for which I'd ever wash yeast.

 

[eadavis80]

I think the more important question is this - is the yeast from the nut brown a yeast you'd want to use with the smash? Certain yeast strains match certain styles better than others. I've always washed yeast, but I pitched on a yeast cake (as an experiment) for the first time a week ago. I don't know the results yet.

 

[Redpappy]

It’s the s-04 yeast. It’s the same yeast that I used in my first SMaSH, that I won’t get to for another week and a half. I more concerned if I just pitched from the yeast cake if I would get some other flavors. This is batch number 2 (SMaSH)of many more to come.

 

[eadavis80]

I'll find out today when I take a gravity reading/sample of my yeast cake pitch experiment if it was a mistake. Like pretty much everything else in homebrewing, everyone has an opinion. The only real way to learn if something works - to me at least - is to try it yourself. So, I tired yeast cake pitching after Northern Brewer itself told me via e-mail that doing it for one generation should be fine.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I more concerned if I just pitched from the yeast cake if I would get some other flavors. This is batch number 2 (SMaSH)of many more to come.

Just pitch what you need and you won't get any flavors from the yeast. Figure about 1B cells per ml of slurry, which would be about 2.5 tablespoons for 1 gal batch of 1.055 wort. Even if you went with 1/4 cup (4 tablespoons) slurry, you'd be fine.

 

[Redpappy]

I'll find out today when I take a gravity reading/sample of my yeast cake pitch experiment if it was a mistake. Like pretty much everything else in homebrewing, everyone has an opinion. The only real way to learn if something works - to me at least - is to try it yourself. So, I tired yeast cake pitching after Northern Brewer itself told me via e-mail that doing it for one generation should be fine.

Have to let me know how it turned out. And I agree with you, best way to find out is to do it. And I like hearing my options.

 

[jalc6927]

I use dry yeast for 2.99 to 3.99 per pack, no need to reuse at this price and risk infection or off flavors

I don’t get why this practice makes sense for 5 gallon batches?

Just doesn’t seem worth it to me

Now if yeast was $10-$15 per packet or I made large quantities of the same brew my opinion would change

 

[Denny]

No way I'd wash it, but then again, there is no scenario where I'd ever wash yeast.

THIS^^^^ Having washed and not washed, I've stopped washing no matter what. It just doesn't make the beer any better, it takes up my valuable time, and it's one more place you can screw up and contaminate things. If it actually ended up making the beer better, I'd be happy to do it. But it doesn't.

 

[LLBeanJ]

THIS^^^^ Having washed and not washed, I've stopped washing no matter what. It just doesn't make the beer any better, it takes up my valuable time, and it's one more place you can screw up and contaminate things. If it actually ended up making the beer better, I'd be happy to do it. But it doesn't.

Exactly the conclusion I came to years ago. I overbuild starters so I have a source of clean yeast when I need to make a starter and direct-pitch fermenter slurry if it fits into my brew schedule based on what I'm brewing next (and I do try to plan my brews so that I can pitch slurry so that I get at least two brews from one starter). Occasionally I buy new yeast, but that is a pretty rare occurrence.

 

[Denny]

Exactly the conclusion I came to years ago. I overbuild starters so I have a source of clean yeast when I need to make a starter and direct-pitch fermenter slurry if it fits into my brew schedule based on what I'm brewing next (and I do try to plan my brews so that I can pitch slurry so that I get at least two brews from one starter). Occasionally I buy new yeast, but that is a pretty rare occurrence.

I generally repitch unwashed slurry without making a starter.

 

[flars]

I used to rinse yeast but no more. I only harvest in a couple of pint jars now instead of quarts. Quarts just used up too much room and most of the yeast in a quart jar was never used.
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/t/yeast-rinsing/7713/12
I'm also over building starters from fresh yeast but the harvested yeast is always there as a back up.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I generally repitch unwashed slurry without making a starter.

As do I. I only make a starter when I don't have any slurry and need a fresh pitch. Once that initial batch has fermented from the starter pitch, I'll often harvest slurry and direct-pitch it into a subsequent batch if I'm brewing something that can use that strain. Generally, if I think I'm going to be using the same strain within a couple months of harvest, I'll go ahead and save a pint or two of unwashed fermenter slurry and hold it until I need it. If I won't have a need for that strain within a couple months, I'll dump all the slurry down the drain when cleaning the fermenter and make up a fresh starter of another strain from clean yeast harvested from a past starter.

 

[eadavis80]

In my experiment pitching onto a cake, I definitely got flavors from the previous batch in my new batch. I knew this COULD happen, but I didn't think it would happen to the degree it has. I brewed a chocolate stout and put that wort onto a Wyeast cake of 1098 that was used for a honey nut brown ale made with some brown sugar. The chocolate stout OG sample tasted good and had a good chocolate flavor, but now it's too much honey sweetness and the chocolate is barely there. I guess I should have just pitched on 1/2 - 1/3 of the cake as many have suggested, but the only way to learn for yourself - IME - is to do it yourself. However, what I'm most surprised by is that the gravity of the stout only dropped from 1.070 to 1.030 8 days after brewing. That's the real bummer and obviously contributes to the already sweet beer. Hoping it improves with time and adding nibs in secondary.

 

[Morrey]

I generally repitch unwashed slurry without making a starter.

Denny, do you generally have a timeline in mind that you feel the saved slurry is ok to use w/o a revitalizing starter? Generally, how long do you typically save your yeast before you feel its time to discard it?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

No need to wash your yeast, but it is best if you put only clean, clear wort into your fermenter. That way your yeast will come out of fermentation pretty clean already. If you transfer cloudy, gunky wort from your kettle to your fermenter, all that junk will end up in your slurry and may affect the quality of your yeast, especialy if it gets more than a generation or two old (do you really want cold break from two batches ago in your new beer?)
And needless to say, if you pitch slurry from your smoked porter into your golden ale, you may influence the flavor, so keep styles similar.

Here is a sample of good, clear wort going from the kettle to the fermenter in my last batch.

 

[stevehaun]

If you use a conical, you can dump and discard the bottom portion of the yeast which includes dead yeast, trub, early floccers, etc. I repitch the remaining yeast as many as 8-10 times without washing. YMMV.

 

[Denny]

Denny, do you generally have a timeline in mind that you feel the saved slurry is ok to use w/o a revitalizing starter? Generally, how long do you typically save your yeast before you feel its time to discard it?

3-4 weeks seems to be fine for me. Longer than that (up to 5 months) I'll make a new starter with a couple Tbsp. of the slurry.

 

[LLBeanJ]

No need to wash your yeast, but it is best if you put only clean, clear wort into your fermenter. That way your yeast will come out of fermentation pretty clean already. If you transfer cloudy, gunky wort from your kettle to your fermenter, all that junk will end up in your slurry and may affect the quality of your yeast, especialy if it gets more than a generation or two old (do you really want cold break from two batches ago in your new beer?)
And needless to say, if you pitch slurry from your smoked porter into your golden ale, you may influence the flavor, so keep styles similar.

Here is a sample of good, clear wort going from the kettle to the fermenter in my last batch.
View attachment 560211

The debate is still very much out on the value of clear wort going to the fermenter. I dump the whole nine yards from my BK into my fermenter and I am still able to reuse yeast slurry for 2-3 generations without any concerns and I get clear beer when all is said and done. Honestly, I don't worry about hot break or hops from a batch or three back getting into my fresh wort. As far as I can tell, it has no practical impact, even when mixing and match styles that might make you think twice. Of course, as brewers we can decide for ourselves where extra attention to process details is best given and with that, what may be important to me may not be at all important to the next guy. I personally see no value in using up any effort whatsoever to get clear wort into the fermenter. That's just me, YMMV.

I once fermented a 1.060-ish Scottish lager with slurry from a Rauchbier (70% beechwood smoked malt) with the hope that some of the smoked flavor would carry over. It did not. And this was a lager, so I was pitching at least double the slurry of what an equivalent OG ale would need. Now, for sure a Scottish has a lot of things going on that could mask flavors coming off the yeast, but in my 6 years and dozens of batches reusing fermenter slurry (about 50% of the beers I brew), my personal opinion is that as long as you use enough yeast to get the job done without egregiously overpitching, the chances of unwanted flavors carrying over are slim. Next fall when I do my next Rauchbier, I'm going to direct-pitch the slurry into either a Helles or Festbier just to see if I can detect any smoke. My bet is that I won't be able to.

 

[jlinz]

A packet of S-04 is really cheap. Why risk it? I'd use a new one.

 

[LLBeanJ]

A packet of S-04 is really cheap. Why risk it? I'd use a new one.

I do risk assessment for a living and have concluded that the cost savings from reusing yeast outweigh any risks involved. In probably 50-60 batches where I've reused yeast harvested from the fermenter, never have I had one go south on me, but I can say that I've saved several hundred dollars in yeast costs over that time.

 

[Denny]

The debate is still very much out on the value of clear wort going to the fermenter. I dump the whole nine yards from my BK into my fermenter and I am still able to reuse yeast slurry for 2-3 generations without any concerns and I get clear beer when all is said and done. Honestly, I don't worry about hot break or hops from a batch or three back getting into my fresh wort. As far as I can tell, it has no practical impact, even when mixing and match styles that might make you think twice. Of course, as brewers we can decide for ourselves where extra attention to process details is best given and with that, what may be important to me may not be at all important to the next guy. I personally see no value in using up any effort whatsoever to get clear wort into the fermenter. That's just me, YMMV.

I once fermented a 1.060-ish Scottish lager with slurry from a Rauchbier (70% beechwood smoked malt) with the hope that some of the smoked flavor would carry over. It did not. And this was a lager, so I was pitching at least double the slurry of what an equivalent OG ale would need. Now, for sure a Scottish has a lot of things going on that could mask flavors coming off the yeast, but in my 6 years and dozens of batches reusing fermenter slurry (about 50% of the beers I brew), my personal opinion is that as long as you use enough yeast to get the job done without egregiously overpitching, the chances of unwanted flavors carrying over are slim. Next fall when I do my next Rauchbier, I'm going to direct-pitch the slurry into either a Helles or Festbier just to see if I can detect any smoke. My bet is that I won't be able to.

Actually, the debate has been over for me for years. About 20 years ago, I read about a test by a guy who brewed 2 batches of pils. On one, all the trub went into the fermenter. On the other, it was carefully removed. When he did a tasting, the beer with the trub was not only clearer, people preferred the flavor. I started not worrying about the trub and got the same results. Also no impact on yeast reuse. That's all I need.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I personally see no value in using up any effort whatsoever to get clear wort into the fermenter. That's just me, YMMV.

Quite right - we all have to figure out what aspects we choose to focus on. For me, clean wort is important for several reasons that I don't want to get into here, lest it possibly derail the thread. Does it really matter? For some it does, for some it doesn't. Everyone's MMV

I once fermented a 1.060-ish Scottish lager with slurry from a Rauchbier (70% beechwood smoked malt) with the hope that some of the smoked flavor would carry over. It did not. And this was a lager, so I was pitching at least double the slurry of what an equivalent OG ale would need. Now, for sure a Scottish has a lot of things going on that could mask flavors coming off the yeast, but in my 6 years and dozens of batches reusing fermenter slurry (about 50% of the beers I brew), my personal opinion is that as long as you use enough yeast to get the job done without egregiously overpitching, the chances of unwanted flavors carrying over are slim. Next fall when I do my next Rauchbier, I'm going to direct-pitch the slurry into either a Helles or Festbier just to see if I can detect any smoke. My bet is that I won't be able to.

I'm not terribly surprised you didn't detect it in the scottish lager.
Likewise I would be surprised if you did NOT detect it in a Helles. Schlenkerla makes a Helles that is mildly smoky and they say they put no rauchmalz in it - it just picks it up in the brewhouse.
I would be really interested i your results.

Also, on an unrelated note, I'm not sure it is really practicably possible to overpitch a lager as long as you are pitching at or below lager ferm temps. Sure, if you are 50% yeast slurry and 50% wort, that might be excessive, but that's also not really practicable.

 

[jlinz]

I do risk assessment for a living and have concluded that the cost savings from reusing yeast outweigh any risks involved. In probably 50-60 batches where I've reused yeast harvested from the fermenter, never have I had one go south on me, but I can say that I've saved several hundred dollars in yeast costs over that time.

I'm talking about dry yeast and s-04 or s-05 specifically. I can get it for like 2.50 a packet, even less in bulk. Wyeast and white labs I would definitely wash because it is expensive.

 

[stinkypants]

I have pitched directly onto a yeast cake left in a fermenter I had just drained to the bottling bucket. Other than still having to bottle it was great.