Should i see activity from Lacto alone?

[Microphobik]

Hi,

I'm brewing my first sour beer. I'm kettle souring with two L Plantarum capsules in a 5 Liter batch. I'm only 24 hours in and I see zero activity in the carboy. Is this normal with lacto alone or should I see some bubbles, current, or other signs of activity?

Thanks.

 

[doomy86]

Hi,

I'm brewing my first sour beer. I'm kettle souring with two L Plantarum capsules in a 5 Liter batch. I'm only 24 hours in and I see zero activity in the carboy. Is this normal with lacto alone or should I see some bubbles, current, or other signs of activity?

Thanks.

It depends on the lacto, if its a homofermentative strain you will see no activity other than PH change and gravity drop.

I used the wyeast lacto alot and there was no visible activity. It took around 3 days at 30C to make the wort very sour.

 

[Microphobik]

Thanks for that info. I googled around and found articles saying L Plantarum was, it wasn't, and it could be both homo and hetero. But I found a few articles saying it was homofermentative, so I'm thinking that's it. We'll find out in another couple of days

Thanks again.

 

[505-Brewer]

Can you pull a sample and get a pH reading or even a taste (might be tough to tell w all the sugar). What yeast are you going to pitch?

 

[Microphobik]

I could but it's just a small 5 Liter batch and it's filled right up to the top of the neck to keep out oxygen. If I pull enough to dip my PH meter in I think I'd lose too much liquid. I was going to give it 3 days and then test right before boiling.

I was planning on using either 100% Brett. Or Belle Saison follewed by Brett.

 

[Sillybilly]

Curious to know if you ever saw any activity? I used L. Plantarum caps in a kettle sour (5 for 5 gallons, opened capsule and pitched directly) and didn't see activity in first 24 hours, then the next 48 hours went from little to nice frothy white foam and pH dropped from 4.5 to 3.5. I got nervous I picked up wild or latent yeast so I boiled before anything further could happen. Curious how your experience went..

 

[Microphobik]

This has been a head scratcher so far. I put 2 capsules of L Plantarum in there initially but after 2 days I had no drop in PH. Then I added another capsule of a different probiotic I just happened to have and waited 3 more days. Checked it last night and still no drop. I added some fermented veggie starter culture last night out of desperation and will give it another couple of days. But I'm thinking this one might be a fail. Really not sure why it;s not souring up.

 

[Sillybilly]

This has been a head scratcher so far. I put 2 capsules of L Plantarum in there initially but after 2 days I had no drop in PH. Then I added another capsule of a different probiotic I just happened to have and waited 3 more days. Checked it last night and still no drop. I added some fermented veggie starter culture last night out of desperation and will give it another couple of days. But I'm thinking this one might be a fail. Really not sure why it;s not souring up.

Did you hop your wort? L plantarum is very sensitive, even at 1-2 ibus

 

[Microphobik]

No, zero hops. It was a fairly strong wort. Gravity was 1.070. Not sure if that effects anything.

 

[doomy86]

No, zero hops. It was a fairly strong wort. Gravity was 1.070. Not sure if that effects anything.

What is the temperature ? Lacto likes it very warm ~35-40C

 

[Microphobik]

I'm aware that many strains need the really warm temps but everything I have read about L Plantarum is that it will sour at room temperature. It's quite warm here right now given that it's the end of summer, but I also put the carboy on a heating pad to help. I wold need to check the precise temp.

 

[Sillybilly]

I think it works faster a little over room temp, i kept mine in low 80s (~28 C). I wrapped my fermenter with seedling heating mat and kept in a upstairs room, so yours is probably in the same temperature range. My other guess is that the cells were no longer viable...

 

[Microphobik]

Yeah, I suspect the bugs were dead as well. I bet a lot of supplement companies are selling crap like hat and we just have no idea.

The veggie starter I added did the job and it soured right up. It got down to 3.2. Lower than I wanted to be honest, but 'll take it.

I boiled it and it's now fermenting with a mix of French Saison and Brett.

My one concern is how long it sat while waiting to sour. All in it was about 10 days. It would have been at least 6 days before it started to really drop.

There was nothing unpleasant about the smell. No diaper or vomit or anything nasty. Maybe a little cabbage. But I've heard that's normal? It tasted pretty decent post-boil. Kind of like prune juice (it's a strong brown ale with some dark candi sugar in there). Is there anything I should be concerned about given how long it sat before souring? If it smelled ok and I've boiled it for an hour to kill any nasty stuff that could have developed is it likely this beer is alright?

 

[microbusbrewery]

My understanding is lactobacillus plantarum 299v is capable of both homo and hetero fermentation, depending on conditions. My disclaimer is I'm not a biologist but if I understand correctly, it tends to ferment homo when little/no O2 is available and hetero when O2 is available (see https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Lactobacillus_plantarum_and_its_biological_implications). I used it via GoodBelly SuperShot and it dropped the pH to 3.49 at room temp (70F) after about four days. Actually, it was at 3.50 at four days but I didn't get a chance to boil until day 6 when it was at 3.49.