Short Fermentation Times, Shipyard, and Beer Advocate

[j1laskey]

So I am confused. From my understanding a lot of people do not care for Shipyard for more or less two reasons, Ringwood yeast itself, or that Shipyard "rushes" their fermentation process to hurry an inferior product out to the masses.

BA (and to a lesser extend HBT) is littered with Shipyard bashing.

So I found it curious that Todd from BA teamed up with some very small local Boston brewers, Cambridge Brewing Co., Enlightment Ales, Idle Hands, Mystic Brewing, and night Shift Brewing to brew up a batch for the start of Boston Beer Week.

The batch quoted from Todd's twitter (I don't follow BA of the Bro's):

The beer is tentatively called Mass Appeal.

It's a strong golden ale with fresh citrus zest, fresh citrus juice, and is dryhopped with Nelson Sauvin, Styrian Aurora, and Citra hops.

Grist is North American and Belgian Pilsner malt, Gambrinus Honey malt, and Valley Malt malted wheat. Adjunct will be some invert sugar which we'll cook up ourselves in the alley, on Sean's homebrewing gear.

17*P OG, target FG is 2.0*P, 8%abv, 20-25 IBU.

Fermentation will be with a collection of yeast strains, one from each participating brewery! Should get pretty crazy.
Started at 7am. Just mashed in. Follow the brew day!

Mass Appeal

10BBl / 12 HL Batch size

Grist:
330# MFB Pilsner
275# Gambrinus Pilsner
120# Valley Malt malted wheat
40# Gambrinus Honey malt
40# MFB Special Aromatic malt
8# Bestmalz Acidulated malt
2 hour boil

Hops:
Bittering:
18 IBU Styrian Aurora at 90 min.(41.5oz. = 336 AAU)
Flameout:
2# Nelson Sauvin
1# Styrian Aurora
1# Sorachi Ace
1# Citra
Whirlpool:
2# Nelson Sauvin
1# Styrian Aurora
1# Sorachi Ace
1# Citra
Citrus:
Flameout:
1 gal. fresh citrus juice
Whirlpool:
1.5# coarsely pureed kumquats (these were impossible to zest!)
1000g/2# fresh citrus zest from a variety of fresh fruits
Lime
Lemon
Key Lime
Meyer lemon
Pink Grapefruit
Tangelo
Cara Cara
Minneola
probably some others I'm forgetting
Adjunct:
50# Dextrose added at 75 minutes
75# Sucanat as homemade invert syrup at 60 minutes. (75# sucrose, 5 gal H20, 8oz. citrus juice to invert, boiled 20 minutes)
Yeast:
A selection of yeast strains from each brewery was blended together and pitched.
Wort temp at Knockout: 64*f
FV jacket temp set at 82.8F
Fermentation will raise temp unrestricted into the mid-80's.
Dry-hopping:
TBD!
OG: (Target) Actual: (18*P/1.072) 18.55*P/1.0742
FG: (Target): (<2.0*P)

Release Date:
Tuesday May 29, 2012 at Cambridge Brewing Company to kick off Boston Beer Week!
http://beeradvocate.com/events/info/54136


The brew day was May 10 2012.

Kegs were taped on Many 29 2012 at the CBC.

So 19 days from grain to glass.

Is this "rushed" for a strong ale with an OG of 1.070? and how will it score on BA after this weekends American Craft Beer Fest in Boston?

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

I cant really touch on the topic your mentioning but I like their smashed blueberry and pumpkinhead. I think they are both very tasty.

 

[ktblunden]

I've enjoyed their Smashed Pumpkin, XXXXIPA, and Barleywine. Wasn't really aware of any criticisms against them, but I don't put much stock in BA reviews.

As to the brew, if ferm temps were controlled well and they pitched the correct amount of healthy yeast it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable that you could finish in 19 days.

 

[Rundownhouse]

The yeast probably had it down to 2P within five days.

 

[KeyWestBrewing]

Theres been a lot of talk about it on this thread...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/patience-really-virtue-331233/

 

[mrgstiffler]

Beer Advocate is full of "group think"...

 

[IffyG]

Beer Advocate is full of "group think"...

Group think... bigger must be better... more expensive must be better... rare must be better... etc, etc, etc.

 

[BigEd]

Group think... bigger must be better... more expensive must be better... rare must be better... etc, etc, etc.

Ah yes, the Beer Advocate Effect.

 

[BigEd]

So I am confused. From my understanding a lot of people do not care for Shipyard for more or less two reasons, Ringwood yeast itself, or that Shipyard "rushes" their fermentation process to hurry an inferior product out to the masses.

BA (and to a lesser extend HBT) is littered with Shipyard bashing.

A lot of people don't care for the Ringwood and that's understandable considering it's strong ester signature. Personally I do and think it works well with many of the UK derived styles that Shipyard brews. As for "rushing" the fermentation that's just ignorance IMO. Many homebrewers don't realize that for the most part a commercial beer is fermented much more quickly than a typical homebrew. They aren't "rushed" they are inoculated with proper amounts of active yeast and often finish primary within a few days. It's the homebrew that's slow not the commercial beer that's rushed. As for the BA crowd the ones I've met who are not homebrewers don't have any more idea how beer is brewed than the BMC drinking crowd.

Grist:
330# MFB Pilsner
275# Gambrinus Pilsner
120# Valley Malt malted wheat
40# Gambrinus Honey malt
40# MFB Special Aromatic malt
8# Bestmalz Acidulated malt
2 hour boil

Hops:
Bittering:
18 IBU Styrian Aurora at 90 min.(41.5oz. = 336 AAU)
Flameout:
2# Nelson Sauvin
1# Styrian Aurora
1# Sorachi Ace
1# Citra
Whirlpool:
2# Nelson Sauvin
1# Styrian Aurora
1# Sorachi Ace
1# Citra
Citrus:
Flameout:
1 gal. fresh citrus juice
Whirlpool:
1.5# coarsely pureed kumquats (these were impossible to zest!)
1000g/2# fresh citrus zest from a variety of fresh fruits
Lime
Lemon
Key Lime
Meyer lemon
Pink Grapefruit
Tangelo
Cara Cara
Minneola
probably some others I'm forgetting
Adjunct:
50# Dextrose added at 75 minutes
75# Sucanat as homemade invert syrup at 60 minutes. (75# sucrose, 5 gal H20, 8oz. citrus juice to invert, boiled 20 minutes)
Yeast:
A selection of yeast strains from each brewery was blended together and pitched.
Wort temp at Knockout: 64*f
FV jacket temp set at 82.8F
Fermentation will raise temp unrestricted into the mid-80's.
Dry-hopping:
TBD!
OG: (Target) Actual: (18*P/1.072) 18.55*P/1.0742
FG: (Target): (<2.0*P)

Release Date:
Tuesday May 29, 2012 at Cambridge Brewing Company to kick off Boston Beer Week!
http://beeradvocate.com/events/info/54136
[/I]

Hey, they left out the hazelnuts and eye of newt.

 

[phenry]

I'd hate to be the guy zesting all that fruit. I used fresh orange zest for a wit one time, and I know it wasn't even anywhere near a fraction of a kg. Not a quick or enjoyable chore by any means.

 

[Disintegr8or]

Beer Advocate is full of "hipster ********* beer snobs"...

^^^ I fixed that for you.

 

[Yooper]

A lot of people don't care for the Ringwood and that's understandable considering it's strong ester signature. Personally I do and think it works well with many of the UK derived styles that Shipyard brews. As for "rushing" the fermentation that's just ignorance IMO. Many homebrewers don't realize that for the most part a commercial beer is fermented much more quickly than a typical homebrew. They aren't "rushed" they are inoculated with proper amounts of active yeast and often finish primary within a few days. It's the homebrew that's slow not the commercial beer that's rushed.

I'm one of the "don't care for Ringwood" people. It's not just estery, which is ok in many British ales, but I've had diacetyl issues with it too. I stay away from ringwood as a result.

I think "rushing" talk is silly. If little ol' me can ferment, package, and start drinking a beer in 8-12 days, the big guys should be able to do it also.

 

[doctorRobert]

Keep in mind, that they are probably using a very healthy pitch of active yeast, that would ferment that in 5 days and they probably but in a bright tank for 2 weeks, carb it up and done.

Could it be better with some aging? Sure, a lot of big beers do. But that's probably better to do in a bottle when bottle conditioner. This will be poured out of kegs.

I think Home Brewers primary longer, because we dont have as good of temperature control, oxygen levels and yeast pitches. So we give the yeast more time to clean up after itself. A commercial brewery can probably speed that up a bit. Also - since they are force carbing, they actually had a decent amount of time to ferment that beer.

I dont care for that grain bill. It looks like a new homebrewer trying to use as many ingredients as possible.

 

[progmac]

Beer Advocate is full of "group think"...

i had land shark, a basic and common lager the other day for the first time. i rather enjoyed it and noted an estery character that really defined the beer for me. i jumped on beer advocate to read whether other people noticed this about the beer and their thoughts on it. i expected reviews like, 'a clean tasting, basic lager with some notes of xxx'

instead the reviews are all like, "D+, this beer sucks! no flavor, no discernible flavor!" actually, here is a front-page reivew of the beer:

Dude, don't buy this, unless you like Corona, in which case you shouldn't be on BA. This stuff is pretty gross, it's beer with little taste, high carbonation, and clean feel (like water). You can taste a little maltiness in the background but the day old piss from the rusty toilet bowl taste prevails. Ok, I exaggerate, but, still, this is un worthy.

i'm like, it's a lager people, what are you expecting? it's like having a saison and saying, 'this sucks it is too fruity. no hop character' D-

anyhow, so then i continued farting around to read what people had to say about another beer someone offered me, a beer called chinookie that features the chinook hop and has an ibu of like 102.

the reviews, no joke, said, "this is a good sessionable beer! not too hoppy, well-balanced"

i'm like, what the hell, that beer is by design incredibly hop heavy and in any case is over 6% abv. who on earth considers something like that a sessionable beer. i had one, enjoyed picking out the flavors of chinook and then moved on to something more quaffable.

summary: beer advocate ranks fine beers D+ and calls extreme beers 'sessionable'

 

[doctorRobert]

i'm like, it's a lager people, what are you expecting?

ipa

 

[j1laskey]

I think "rushing" talk is silly. If little ol' me can ferment, package, and start drinking a beer in 8-12 days, the big guys should be able to do it also.

This is exactly my point.

This was a post from here on HTB...."My problem with shipyard is all there beers taste like diactyl (butterscotch). I think they are rushing fermentation a bit. If you don't know what it is you might not notice it, but once you do that's all you (or I) can taste. "

How quick is Shipyard getting beers brewed, fermented, packaged and out the door?

 

[scottland]

This is the type of crap you find on BA:

Double Jack opens with a brilliantly hoppy nose, notes of heavy pink grapefruit immediately flowing out of the bottle, their sugary sweetness tempered by more bitter hop aromas, including grapefruit rind, mint, pine resin, and touches of eucalyptus. A good dose of white pepper and smidgens of anise add a bit more bite and spiciness, joined by brown sugar and wheat bread dough from the malts, as well as cherry, orange, and nectarine fruit esters. As a whole, the nose is very forward on hops, and light on malts, but this works well, the flavors mingling together nicely, and the balance between sweet sugars and bitter plant aromas near spot-on. The sugars do win the battle in the end, leaving the beer just slightly too candy-like, but it&#8217;s still obvious that this is well-crafted.

On the tongue, the beer opens with a lovely pink grapefruit and grapefruit rind blast, joined almost immediately by heavier pine resin, white pepper, mint, dandelion stem, and rose hip notes. The cherry, orange, and nectarine fruit esters help temper this onslaught somewhat, but the taste still proves far more bitter than the nose let on. Small touches of bread, brown sugar, and toast crust lie somewhere beneath, but are hard to find. The beer is bitter not only in flavor, but in mouthfeel, biting at the soft tissues and tickling the throat. The dandelion stem and pepper notes seem to increase as the sugars die off in the mouth, until the later stages of the beer are quite plant-like, much like chewing on stems. The aftertaste is a continuation of the bitter hops, mainly grapefruit rind and dandelion stem, and lingers for a long time. Mouthfeel is a drier medium, and carbonation is medium.

Overall, I thought this a good double IPA, certainly wonderful in smell, but in the mouth the bitter rind-and-stem notes took over just a bit too much, making other flavors difficult to locate. I have no doubt, however, that hopheads will like this one, as it seems that they make up a good 75% of the flavors.

It's for this reason, I've chosen to completely forget BA exists. Therefore, If BA dislikes Shipyard, tell yourself "Since i refuse to acknowledge BA's existence, I'll have to formulate my own opinion." It works really well, try it.

P.S. I had to go and look for a ridiculous post to quote. That little gem took me less than 10 seconds to find.

 

[doctorRobert]

This is exactly my point.

This was a post from here on HTB...."My problem with shipyard is all there beers taste like diactyl (butterscotch). I think they are rushing fermentation a bit. If you don't know what it is you might not notice it, but once you do that's all you (or I) can taste. "

How quick is Shipyard getting beers brewed, fermented, packaged and out the door?

The big guys turn over beer much faster than the average homebrew. I bet 2 weeks or less from kettle to can/keg is the norm, for typical ales.

 

[phenry]

This is the type of crap you find on BA:



It's for this reason, I've chosen to completely forget BA exists. Therefore, If BA dislikes Shipyard, tell yourself "Since i refuse to acknowledge BA's existence, I'll have to formulate my own opinion." It works really well, try it.

P.S. I had to go and look for a ridiculous post to quote. That little gem took me less than 10 seconds to find.

Was this guy drinking a beer or chewing on some shrubs and flowers he pulled out of his garden? I've had Double Jack, and this review is awful.

 

[ChickenArise]

I cobbled this together to Firefox (with Greasemonkey) or Chrome to make BA a little more bearable. I miss it whenever I browse on my phone

https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/127283