Shirron Plate Chiller + Gravity

[derekbooth]

I posted a thread in the Beginners section, but wasn't getting the feedback I wanted. Maybe my question wasn't properly written. I'm going to try again here in a much simpler fashion

If my boil kettle's ball valve is 5" above my carboy, will the orientation of the plate chiller be important?

Can the chiller be mounted to my stand vertically, with the "wort in" connection below the height of the BK's ball valve, but the "wort out" section also be below the height of the carboy and still have enough pressure to pour into the carboy from the plate chiller, despite being lower than the carboy?

I've found some threads on the subject, but none answering this question very directly

 

[wyzazz]

Nope, not with gravity. I have a plate chiller much like the shirron and if I drop the wort out portion below my fermenter it slows down quite a bit, and will stop if there isn't enough fluid in the BK. Get that BK up higher and you'll be alright, the higher you go the more powerful the siphon-effect is.

 

[abracadabra]

I'd have to disagree with the comment above and say from the description you wrote that yes you can mount it vertically.

Will you be satified with the flow rate? I can't answer that but a slower flow will make for cooler wort. So depending on the water temp you are using it might even be good to do something like that.

 

[wyzazz]

Just a suggestion but try it with water first to see what happens, just keep in mind that the wort will be thicker and most likely have some hop particulate floating around in it.

I pick my BK's ball valve up around 2ft higher than my plate chiller and around 4ft higher than the top of my fermenter overall, my line coming out of the chiller is just under 3ft long.

 

[derekbooth]

I'd have to disagree with the comment above and say from the description you wrote that yes you can mount it vertically.

Are you saying that you believe there will be enough force to drive the wort through and out of the vertically mounted plate chiller and then up about 6" above the "wort out" line of the chiller and into the carboy neck? If so, that would be awesome, I just want to make sure you understood my initial question, as there is no accompanying picture/diagram and I see how it could easily be misunderstood.

Will you be satified with the flow rate? I can't answer that but a slower flow will make for cooler wort. So depending on the water temp you are using it might even be good to do something like that.

I don't mind a slow flow rate. In my opinion, even if I'm sacrificing some time in flow rate, I'm still gaining time by not using an immersion chiller and then draining 10 gallons through a ball valve into a carboy. Plus, as you stated, the slower rate will improve the temperature drop.

Just a suggestion but try it with water first to see what happens, just keep in mind that the wort will be thicker and most likely have some hop particulate floating around in it.

Wish I could! I haven't purchased a plate chiller yet because I'm hesitant to drop the cash on something that I might end up having to buy a pump for. Which would defeat the purpose of me building a 3 tier gravity brew stand and I would have to admit that I planned poorly

 

[wyzazz]

A plate chiller on a gravity fed system will be kind of slow no matter what, it just depends on how slow is OK with you. If you're planning on going with a gravity fed system for the foreseeable future, I'd probably go with a CFC. I went with a plate chiller because I knew I'd eventually purchase a pump. The heat transfer is better than with an IC but not quite up to par with a plate chiller IMHO.

Out of curiosity what is your groundwater temp? If it's not low enough you may end up needing a pump to recirculate ice water or even just recirculate back in to the BK to get down to your pitching temps.

Just trying to figure out what the best solution for you is going to be.

 

[derekbooth]

A plate chiller on a gravity fed system will be kind of slow no matter what, it just depends on how slow is OK with you. If you're planning on going with a gravity fed system for the foreseeable future, I'd probably go with a CFC. I went with a plate chiller because I knew I'd eventually purchase a pump. The heat transfer is better than with an IC but not quite up to par with a plate chiller IMHO.

Out of curiosity what is your groundwater temp? If it's not low enough you may end up needing a pump to recirculate ice water or even just recirculate back in to the BK to get down to your pitching temps.

Just trying to figure out what the best solution for you is going to be.

It's going to be very warm in a month or so. Although, this will be my first summer in this house, so I'll have to wait and see. I do have an immersion chiller that I plan on using as a pre-chiller however.

I'm beginning to think I may just go with the plate chiller and test it as you recommended with water. If its too slow or doesn't flow at all, I'll buy a pump and mount it on the 2x4 shelf post opposite my chiller. Won't be entirely gravity fed and slightly more than I wanted to spend but... oh well!

 

[wyzazz]

With a pump you'll be able to recirculate, that will get the entire volume of wort down to pitching temps faster than just draining in to the fermenter. Either way I hope you enjoy building your system, and enjoy the beer it makes even better!

 

[abracadabra]

Are you saying that you believe there will be enough force to drive the wort through and out of the vertically mounted plate chiller and then up about 6" above the "wort out" line of the chiller and into the carboy neck? If so, that would be awesome, I just want to make sure you understood my initial question, as there is no accompanying picture/diagram and I see how it could easily be misunderstood.

With you second description I'm not so sure

The end of the output hose from the chiller needs to end up being below the BK valve. You might have to drop the end of the hose low enough to get a siphon started then block it off and put it into the carboy.

There is also the possibilty of transfering the cooled wort from one vessel to the carboy or fermenter.

That's what I do since the fermenter is in the basement and the brew sculpture is in the barn. I use the trip to help aerate the wort.

 

[derekbooth]

With you second description I'm not so sure

The end of the output hose from the chiller needs to end up being below the BK valve. You might have to drop the end of the hose low enough to get a siphon started then block it off and put it into the carboy.

There is also the possibilty of transfering the cooled wort from one vessel to the carboy or fermenter.

That's what I do since the fermenter is in the basement and the brew sculpture is in the barn. I use the trip to help aerate the wort.

The "wort out" hose on the chiller will be below the BK valve, however, it will also be several inches below the neck of the carboy, causing the wort to have to travel through the hose vertically about 5 inches. So the siphon would have to be powerful enough to travel against gravity, I guess?

 

[derekbooth]

Update. I haven't put the wheels on the brewstand yet, however I brewed last night and even with the plate chiller's "wort out" line only a couple inches off the ground, I was able to easily create a strong enough siphon to for the wort to travel upward nearly a foot and completedly emptied the boil kettle.

Now I need to figure out why the temperature of the wort came out at 100 degrees even after placing my pre-chiller in an ice bath. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Flow of wort too fast maybe? The water was steaming on its way out...

 

[wyzazz]

Wort was too fast, and the hose was too slow. If you've got a pre-chiller that's smaller in ID than the inputs of the plate chiller you're seriously restricting the flow, thus restricting the amount of "cold" water that comes in to contact with hot wort.

Try putting your hose on full blast and slow down the wort flow with no pre-chiller and see where that gets you.

 

[AiredAle]

The driving force for a syphon is the distance from the free liquid surface in your upper vessel and the outlet of your lower tube. The configuration of the stuff in between is immaterial as long as there is no air in the system and the flow isn't physically restricted.