Seriously thinking about primary to keg...

[Ol' Grog]

I'd really like to hear the "skinny" on this from ya'll in the know. I know one member her does this religiously and has said to have no issues. I would worry about the yeast cake turning on the brew. Could that happen with it sitting in the primary for two weeks? Autolysis? Would there even be a difference from 1 week primary, 1 week secondary or two weeks primary? Since everything I read here states that secondary is strictly used for clearing, I would think that two weeks in primary undisturbed might achieve the same results.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Autolysis takes longer than a month to produce.

I left a Hefe Weizen in the primary for 34 days and it won best of show that beat out over 100 other entries.

Some brewers leave the primary alone for 2 weeks and keg right away. I haven't heard any complaints.

 

[david_42]

I'm not religious, just lazy. Two to three weeks in the fermenter then into the keg.

Autolysis is right up there with hot side oxidation on the list of things that take way longer than people think.

 

[RichBrewer]

Who knows? Maybe your beer would be better. Less handling= less chance for oxidation- less chance for infection.

 

[gnef]

this is what i've moved to doing. i used to use glass carboys , and then i started reading about all these accidents that people had with glass, and going to the hospital, and decided to stop using glass for beer. i moved back to a plastic bucket primary, and just like you said, i will primary for about two weeks, and then rack in to kegs for secondary/serving. if i feel like it, i will transfer it later to a serving keg, if not, i serve directly out of the 'secondary' keg.

yes, more trub will develop in the keg, but if you don't move the keg, you won't run into these issues. if i know i need to move a keg after it has been cold conditioning, then i will just transfer it to a serving keg, after pouring out the first pint or so of sediment, and keeping the last bits of sediment from transfering at the end. this will keep the beer clear. i usually don't bother with it though.

this method keeps me safe from glass, at least for beer (i also do meads and ciders, and will do wines in the future that i will have to use my glass on as i don't have any better bottles and prefer glass over better bottles anyway).

 

[homebrewer_99]

I've heard of others cutting off up to an inch of their dip tubes (sounds painful) to keep it off of the sediment. That might work for you.

 

[gnef]

personally, i would rather transfer to another keg than to cut off the dip tube. that's just me though. (i have 20+ kegs, and knowing which ones have cut dip tubes, and which don't, etc. plus since i have so many, it makes it easy to just transfer)

 

[67coupe390]

I've heard of others cutting off up to an inch of their dip tubes (sounds painful) to keep it off of the sediment. That might work for you.

I was thinking of doing that too but it would just kill me to leave a beer or two in the carboy never to be drank.

 

[DAAB]

add finings to the primary and you can rack bright beer to the keg, no need to cut your dip tube

if you choose not to rack bright beer to the keg, allow the sediment to settle and draw it off in the first pint.

if you cant resist cutting your dip tube you can always extend it again with a piece of siphon tubing.

 

[anojones]

I'm recently back to brewing and always used a secondary in the past. Since starting again I've brewed a few times and I'm only using a primary for two to three weeks. I'm dry hopping now and realized I probably won't be able to re-use the yeast (not sure how to separate it from all the hops floating in there). Next time I'll probably dry hop in a secondary so I can re-use the yeast from the primary- but if I'm not dry hopping I don't plan on racking to a secondary.

 

[gnef]

why not dry hop in a keg? it's not that bad, the only problems i've had are with hop particles causing leaks in the poppets, but i just transfer it off to another keg at that point, and clean out the original keg.

 

[Ol' Grog]

Thanks. Good info. For those of you that do go straight to kegging, do you charge up the keg, 30 psi or so, and then let it sit out for a couple of more days, or go to the kegerator with CO2 on it to get carbonation and then serve? I was just wondering if it still needs to condition a couple of days off of the yeast cake.

 

[gnef]

you always need to condition.

the way i normally operate is i primary ferment at 65 (i generally only do ales), and i also condition at 65. this is all in my chest freezer with a temp control on it. it can support four kegs and a primary fermenter on the compressor shelf. while the kegs are conditioning, i have them hooked up to co2 at the proper volume of co2 i desire. within a week or two, it should be properly carbed, and at least somewhat conditioned. i will keep it there until i need to condition another keg, or if i blow a keg in the kegerator, in which case i will continue the conditioning in the kegerator while serving until the beer goes empty. heh.

this is contingent on having multiple co2 tanks though. if i didn't have this many, i would just do what you say, and put enough pressure to seat the lid and let it condition until a space opened in the kegerator. then i would probably use a diffusion stone to quickly carb the beer up to where i wanted it.

 

[DAAB]

Thanks. Good info. For those of you that do go straight to kegging, do you charge up the keg, 30 psi or so, and then let it sit out for a couple of more days, or go to the kegerator with CO2 on it to get carbonation and then serve? I was just wondering if it still needs to condition a couple of days off of the yeast cake.

CAMRA claim that storing beer under pressure interferes with the maturation process, i'm sceptical although I only purge o2 from the keg after racking from the primary and don't carbonate until ready so don't have first hand experience.

CAMRA WEB LINK

 

[gnef]

haha. i think someone else on this board said that the co2 in solution was a necessary part of the conditioning process.

i guess this is one of those things that you do as you like.

i honestly don't know which way is better, the method i choose to do is just more convenient for me. to each his own though!

 

[Ol' Grog]

From what I've gathered and drinking a couple of brews premature, at a minimum, two weeks of non-conditioning phase....that is, left alone in either a primary or secondary. The two weeks for bottle conditioning is actually the conditioning phase. I would assume after the first week, the brew in the bottle is starting to become pressurized because of the CO2 being produced from the available yeast still in solution. With that in mind, I'd probably try something like this when I get my two kegs I ordered yesterday:
two weeks in the primary
two weeks in the keg at room temperature with enough CO2 to purge the O2 out, since we store the bottles at room temperature, I think of a keg as one big ass bottle.
one week under the correct volume of CO2, for me and the ales in general, somewhere around 10 to 15 psi. That pressure works well from serving from a cobra tap inside the kegerator. The current brews in there pour just about right with little bit of head and not too foamy. Enough to fill a 36 ounce beer mug about 75% full of liquid. Sound about right???

 

[Orpheus]

CAMRA claim that storing beer under pressure interferes with the maturation process, i'm sceptical although I only purge o2 from the keg after racking from the primary and don't carbonate until ready so don't have first hand experience.

CAMRA WEB LINK

Well if this is true, then all bottle conditioned beer has been interfered with as it's all under pressure.

 

[DAAB]

Well if this is true, then all bottle conditioned beer has been interfered with as it's all under pressure.

Good bottled beer will be matured before the bottling stage

 

[cphair16]

Two- three weeks in the primary then rack to keg, pressurize for a few days and server. Will this method work well?

 

[kfgolfer]

In my opinion, 2-3 weeks then keg and serve is way too early. Even if your kegging, I believe there still should be at least 6 weeks from brewing to drinking.. and I've learned that from many people on these boards.

This is a great hobby but patience is a big part of it..... the longer you wait, the better your beer will be. Even a few weeks can make a huge difference....

 

[DAAB]

As a rule of thumb you should mature a beer 1 week for every 10 gravity points so a 1040 beer requires 4 weeks to mature (after primary fermentation) so if you rest your beer in a secondary for a couple of weeks then 2 weeks in the keg will be fine.
Beer matures quicker in volume so if you are bottling it would be advisable to leave a week or so longer, although you'll probably be governed by the rate a which the beer carbonates anyway.

 

[gnef]

maturation is also impacted by temperature too. it will mature faster at higher temperatures, to an extent. this works so that if you are brewing a recipe you've done before, and know it matures well a certain number of weeks at a certain temperature, if you need it sooner, you increase the temperature, or if you need it later, you reduce the temperature, so that when you drink it, it will be in it's prime, and not before or after.

also, beer styles mature differently as well. for example, i've heard (i haven't done this yet) that wheat beer is better the younger it is, and people have said it was good two weeks, or even a week after brewing (this is with kegging, obviously you can't do this with bottles). sorry if this muddy's up anything.

i guess this just goes to show that there are good general guidelines, but don't be rigid with it, as there are always exceptions, and be observant how every small variable can make a significant difference with the beer.