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I did, I just thought it was some overzealous police chief on a power trip.
It's not just one...
http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/330977/
I did, I just thought it was some overzealous police chief on a power trip.
OK, lots of good information. What I wanted to do has been made clear that it's illegal. Let me get back to the original scenario that I neglected to mention......There's a local pizza joint in town that is known for having good pizza and good beer. The owner has been selling local beers (Upland, 3 floyds, Bells, etc). He's been having some trouble getting some of these and other beers in small amounts lately. He now is interested in having someone come on board and start brewing beer in house (in the kitchen of the restaurant). Apparently, he wants me to be that guy. So here is where I need some more insight. He's talking about starting with small amounts (5-10 gallons/week). I'm all for that if everything is legit. He has a liquor license already but he's interested in the possibilty of selling growlers to go. I'm sure there are other legalities that need to be worked out. My question is, are there any specific reasons that this won't work or is illegal? That's where I should have started with the OP, but I had other things in mind.
Phunhog said:Well......the fees and regulations alone will make it not worth it. You are brewing to small of an amount to cover the licensing cost.
I see this a lot, but I'm not sure what you're referring to... The TTB does not charge for licensing and the business owner clearly already has an ABC license. Is there something I'm missing in terms of licensing costs?
Zamial said:It is now time to go to the TTB and Probrewer.com. We are HOME brewers. From other professional brewers on this site and reading their threads it seems IMPOSSIBLE to make a profit with less than a 1 BBL brewery, this may be different in your state. ANY advice given on "going pro" other than contact the TTB and Probrewer is conjecture at best, we simply do not cover that on this site.
I wish you and your pizza friend the best of luck let us know how it turns out.
I see this a lot, but I'm not sure what you're referring to... The TTB does not charge for licensing and the business owner clearly already has an ABC license. Is there something I'm missing in terms of licensing costs?
Phunhog said:Well you have to put up a bond of at least 1K. You can either pay it directly to TTB or go through a bond company and pay a smaller amount every year. I don't know about Indiana, but in CA there are various ABC licenses. Just because you are allowed to sell beer doesn't mean you can produce beer for sale..it's a different license. Which of course costs more money.
Indiana Code 7.1-5-6-1. You cant brew for commercial purposes without a permit. But there is a difference between selling to strangers for a PROFIT and letting a buddy take a six pack home and takin a few bucks from him to offset the money you put into your brew.
Indiana Code 7.1-5-6-1. You cant brew for commercial purposes without a permit. But there is a difference between selling to strangers for a PROFIT and letting a buddy take a six pack home and takin a few bucks from him to offset the money you put into your brew. Yes its TECHNICALLY illegal, but its also a misdemeanor in Indiana to bet 5 bucks on the bears game... How many people are arrested for that??
Just dont be dumb about it...
you are right...don't be dumb about it!! Just don't do it! If someone wants to buy beer have them pitch the yeast!! That way it is their beer.
That's like saying. I don't need a fishing licesne, officer. My buddy casted the pole and then went to take a leak, I'm just reeling in "his" fish.
Exactly.....whoever is holding the rod is the fisherman and whoever pitches the yeast is the brewer.
Is there some exemption for Hawaii and Palinland?
OK, lots of good information. What I wanted to do has been made clear that it's illegal. Let me get back to the original scenario that I neglected to mention......There's a local pizza joint in town that is known for having good pizza and good beer. The owner has been selling local beers (Upland, 3 floyds, Bells, etc). He's been having some trouble getting some of these and other beers in small amounts lately. He now is interested in having someone come on board and start brewing beer in house (in the kitchen of the restaurant). Apparently, he wants me to be that guy. So here is where I need some more insight. He's talking about starting with small amounts (5-10 gallons/week). I'm all for that if everything is legit. He has a liquor license already but he's interested in the possibilty of selling growlers to go. I'm sure there are other legalities that need to be worked out. My question is, are there any specific reasons that this won't work or is illegal? That's where I should have started with the OP, but I had other things in mind.
You need to talk to a lawyer, not homebrewers.
But homebrewers are much more fun to talk to....and quite a bit cheaper too!!
To be honest I feel all of us secretly would love to own a small commercial brewery.
Are these questions out of curiosity, or are people actually worried they're doing something illegal?
Do what you want, you probably do at least one illegal thing per week anyway
First of all, I don't see anything in the Indiana code that defines who is the manufacturer of the beer. It certainly doesn't say anything about pitching yeast. So good luck with that.
Second, your analogy doesn't even make sense:
holding the rod :: catching a fish
storing the carboy :: brewing the beer
is the correct one.
Under federal rules the manufacturer is who pitches the yeast. You can "manufacture" wort unregulated.
If you are intent on this, have him buy part of the ingredients, then give him the appropriate portion of the finished product.
You need to talk to a lawyer, not homebrewers.
But lawyers will actually give you useful advice.
You need to talk to a lawyer, not homebrewers.
But homebrewers are much more fun to talk to....and quite a bit cheaper too!!
Are these questions out of curiosity, or are people actually worried they're doing something illegal?
Do what you want, you probably do at least one illegal thing per week anyway
To be honest I feel all of us secretly would love to own a small commercial brewery. The main problem I see is funds. After touring a couple of small operations I dont think I would attempt it without at least a mill in disposable income. 10 gallons at a time will not cut it, and bottling by hand? Forget it. I spend a lot of time on my beer and I cant even keep up with my own consumption.
Not me. Brewing is too much fun to turn it into a job!
There we have it. I guess it's OK then since you've probably already broken some other law.
So if I get a speeding ticket on the way to robbing a bank, am I off the hook for bank robbery?
zeg said:Do you have a citation for this? Specifically, for the interpretation that if you, in your unlicensed home brewery, perform all steps except the physical act of pouring yeast into the fermenter, that you are not responsible as the manufacturer?
I'm skeptical (before even getting into the question of whether you could ever convince the authorities that this is what had occurred).
the federal TTB and your local ABC have tons of documentation. Bottom line- alcohol is a taxable and regulated product. Wort has no alcohol. Draw your own conclusions.
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