Sample After 3 Days In Primary Was Insanely Bitter

[mikeyk12]

I love very bitter west coast IPAs and can handle the hops but the beer I just brewed may be too much for anyone. This is my third homebrew batch and my first original recipe. I haven't had anyone to help me along so I've jumped head first into the deep end of figuring out what I'm doing. This is the first brew that I have been doing gravity readings of and after 3.5 days in primary, the SG is 1.12 and the taste is absolutely overpoweringly bitter. It's not even close to anything drinkable.

Is this because I over-hopped or because of the fermentation process? If it's because I over-hopped, can I brew a batch of a maltier, less hoppy version to blend it with?

Recipe:
1LB Caravienna
6LBS Extra Light DME
1LB Amber LME

60 minute additions:
.6oz Columbus (19.5)

30 minute additions:
.5oz Amarillo (8.4)
.5oz Centennial (9.2)


15 minute addition:
Whirlfloc
.5oz Amarillo (8.4)
.5oz Centennial (9.2)
.25oz Citra (12)

5 minute addition:
.25oz Simcoe (13.8)

Flameout additions:
.75oz Amarillo (8.4)
.75oz Centennial (9.2)
.75oz Simcoe (13.8)
.5 Citra (11.7)

 

[petrolSpice]

That's a lot of hops, so yes it will be bitter. You cannot judge a brew's taste after just 3 days. I've had brews that I thought, when bottling, that I wouldn't be able to drink. But after weeks/months of bottle conditioning they are delicious.

Also, I don't see how you would have an SG of 1.12 with that recipe. Did you mean 1.012?

 

[mikeyk12]

I wish I understood gravity reading slightly better but when I took my hydrometer reading, it was in the green, just on the high side of the "1" in the green range.

 

[CUrchin]

At three days your sample in no way, shape or form is going to resemble your final beer. I think you are tasting un-fermented wort in addition to the hops. My advice would be to ignore the beer for a few weeks.

 

[mikeyk12]

Looking agin at the hydrometer, I see that it is 1.012. Which means it's damn near done I guess. Still bubbling in my blowoff bucket

 

[petrolSpice]

Looking agin at the hydrometer, I see that it is 1.012. Which means it's damn near done I guess. Still bubbling in my blowoff bucket

Yep, sounds like it's almost done. What yeast did you use?

I'd let it go for at least two weeks before doing anything with it, regardless if it reached FG.

 

[mikeyk12]

I was planning on letting it sit for 3 weeks before dry hopping, so I guess I'll calm my nerves until then.

 

[mikeyk12]

Yep, sounds like it's almost done. What yeast did you use?

I used wlp090. My local supply store billed it to me as a strain made specifically for west coast style IPAs. I have since learned that it just a very slightly different tasting wlp001 that clears much better and leaves a cleaner finish, or at least that's what I've read on this forum.

 

[Yooper]

That beer isn't overbittered. Most of the bittering contribution comes from hops added early in the boil (30-60 minutes boiled, total).

I'd plug that recipe into Brewer's Friend (a free software online) and see what the total IBUs are compared to the OG. To me, it doesn't look like quite enough late hops to be an IPA, more like a hoppy pale ale, so I think the recipe is fine.

 

[norsk]

As others have noted, 3 days is kinda soon to judge. That being said, that hop schedule would be too weak for my wife... who, it must be said, has mutated taste buds...

 

[mikeyk12]

As others have noted, 3 days is kinda soon to judge. That being said, that hop schedule would be too weak for my wife... who, it must be said, has mutated taste buds...

Lol that makes me feel a lot better. I was really worried the whole time about adding too many hops so I'm glad it's going to mellow out.

 

[eddieb33]

I was planning on letting it sit for 3 weeks before dry hopping, so I guess I'll calm my nerves until then.

I'd dry hop sooner than that. For a beer like this with lots of hop flavor and aroma that might fade quickly, I'd try to get it into bottles ASAP. In general I'd want to give it one week in primary, one week in secondary with dry hop additions, then maybe two weeks in bottles. But still, go by what the hydrometer tells you.

 

[mikeyk12]

Everything I've read, aside from preservation of hop flavors, has said to let it sit on the yeast to floc and clean up all the byproducts. Also, I do not plan on using a secondary, as many of the experienced brewers on this site advocate just the use of the primary.

 

[Terek]

Everything I've read, aside from preservation of hop flavors, has said to let it sit on the yeast to floc and clean up all the byproducts. Also, I do not plan on using a secondary, as many of the experienced brewers on this site advocate just the use of the primary.

If a clear beer is what you want, then a secondary might be nessesary if you are gonna dry hop for 3 days max. 3 days isnt enough time for the hops to settle after dry hopping.
I personally dont care about a "clear" beer and i hate secondaries. I also only will dry hop for 3 days. So if your like me, dont bother. But if you want really clear beer, you might consider a secondary, or dry hopping for 5-7 days with a cold crash.
I say "if my beer is to cloudy for you, than dont drink it. More for me "

 

[mikeyk12]

If a clear beer is what you want, then a secondary might be nessesary if you are gonna dry hop for 3 days max. 3 days isnt enough time for the hops to settle after dry hopping.
I personally dont care about a "clear" beer and i hate secondaries. I also only will dry hop for 3 days. So if your like me, dont bother. But if you want really clear beer, you might consider a secondary, or dry hopping for 5-7 days with a cold crash.
I say "if my beer is to cloudy for you, than dont drink it. More for me "

Its not my intention to be argumentative but there is considerable debate as to whether or not a secondary will truly produce a clearer beer.
http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/dry-hopping-in-primary-vs-secondary.8685/

People have claimed that their primary fermented beers come out cleaner and tastier than they ever did with a secondary. Perhaps oxidation becomes an issue?

I'm interested in as clear a beer as is possible without extreme effort.

 

[Yooper]

Everything I've read, aside from preservation of hop flavors, has said to let it sit on the yeast to floc and clean up all the byproducts. Also, I do not plan on using a secondary, as many of the experienced brewers on this site advocate just the use of the primary.

Yes, some people do believe in ultra-long primaries, and the flavors imparted by a longer time on the yeast.

I'm not one of those people, though. Once the beer is done fermenting, the yeast is still active, "cleaning up" some of its waste products. Some believe that this takes ages to occur, but it does not. About 24 hours after the FG is reached, this "clean up phase" is over. After that, the beer starts to clear. Some yeast strains drop clear faster than others, but my practice has been to wait for the beer to finish fermenting (generally 5-7 days), wait three days for the "clean up" and the clearing to begin, and then check a sample. If it's clear (or reasonably so), I dryhop for 5 days and then package, generally dryhopping right in the primary.

That's all assuming that the FG is unchanging from clearing to packaging, of course.

If a beer is done, and starting to clear, it's still just as done. It doesn't get "doner" by sitting for weeks and weeks. Again, some brewers like the yeast character imparted by a long time in the fermenter, and prefer that over quicker packaging. It's a matter of personal taste, and you'll find preferences both ways!

Some beers do improve with age, like big stouts and complex flavors like wood-aged beers. Most do not.

 

[mikeyk12]

Interesting. Maybe ill do one long and one short to see if I can determine a significant difference. I would love it to be done in such a short time. No point in waiting if there's no point in waiting

 

[mikeyk12]

I took a gravity reading yesterday, at day 5 in primary and it was down to 1.010.

The sample on the left was taken at 3.5 days in primary and was 1.012. The sample on the right is 5 days and 1.010.


I'm going to take a sample today to see if the gravity is holding steady.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[tooblue02]

Looks yummy, as for the bitterness, I think the others have hit the nail in the head with the relax and lit her sit for another week or two. I recently did some testing with two different IPA's I brewed. One I added a bunch of hops near the end of the boil and the other I dry hopped. The dry hopped one only got clear after I left it in the fridge for 2+ weeks. The non-dry hopped one was nice and clear after 2 days in the fridge. Spoke with my LHBS and they said that the hop oils can really screw with getting clear beer when you dry hop (I think this is the chill haze I was seeing in some of my other brews). I also add 1-2oz of Magnum at the 60 minute mark and probably way more hops in the end than you did. So def let it sit and clean itself up, I am sure it will delicious! And if it is off by something, then change the hop additions around a little and brew again, at least you know it will still tase good!

Edit: Neither of them were moved to secondaries and they were both BIAB brews

 

[mikeyk12]

Several people commented to say that my beer wouldn't be too bitter but I finally got my head around using Brewer's Friend and it's giving me extremely high IBUs. I used a different IBU calculator to create my recipe and I thought I was somewhere around 80, not 151.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[carton132]

I'd say don't worry about the theoretical IBU being 150 or higher. I have done several that calculated to 200+ in theory, but if you like west coast IPAs like Stone Ruination or Green Flash Palette Wrecker you will never make a beer that is too bitter for you.

 

[gr8shandini]

A few things to remember when you're sampling a beer before it's finished are:

1) Yeast "bite" - at 3 days, you've got plenty of live yeast floating around in there. Depending on the strain, they can taste a lot of different ways, but bitter or sour is usually a component when you have a high enough concentration. This is also why people should care about clear beer. If your beer isn't clear (except for some hop or chill haze), the yeast is altering the flavor of the beer. That could be a bonus - as it is in a Hefeweizen - but usually not.

2) Temperature - chilling beer masks certain flavors and promotes others.

3) Carbonation - affects both taste and mouthfeel.

You'll eventually get used to it enough that you can tell when a beer is "right" from your FG sample, but there's so much going on at this early in the game that it's nearly impossible.

 

[mikeyk12]

I'd say don't worry about the theoretical IBU being 150 or higher. I have done several that calculated to 200+ in theory, but if you like west coast IPAs like Stone Ruination or Green Flash Palette Wrecker you will never make a beer that is too bitter for you.

Well I am a huge Stone fan and have been going to their anniversary celebrations for the last 3 years, always drinking the most intense IPAs that San Diego has to offer. I'll trust that this will mellow more. I'll definitely keep updating.

 

[pablosbrewing]

View attachment 188858
I used a different IBU calculator to create my recipe and I thought I was somewhere around 80, not 151.
Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Actual IBU depends on when you add your malt extracts in the boil.

It looks like Brewers Friend assumed the extracts went in at the end of the boil (Boil Gravity 1.004). If that is what you did then yes you will be on the upper end.

If you did add the extracts earlier your IBU will be lower. You should be able to adjust the actual times/amounts in Brewers Friend to match your actual brew, and the software will calculate for you.

 

[mikeyk12]

Ahhhh gotcha. I didn't realize that a late malt addition would affect the IBUs. This was my first time doing late malt addition.

Damn it's amazing how few hops I really need at the 60 min boil. I should use more like .25 Columbus and then .7 total at 30 min. I'll probably up the late additions a bit next time.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Bobby_M]

When the extract is added has very little impact on the final IBUs but what has an extreme impact is what the boil volume was and how much top up water was used. If you achieve 80 IBU in the boil, but that boil volume is only 2.5 gallons out of 5, the water dilution immediately brings it down to 40 IBU.

 

[DennisinIowa]

Quit sampling you beer every 3 days or you wont have any to bottle.

Just bottled this last weekend

AHS Doomsday Rebellion Imperial IPA

20 oz. hops

Might be a little hoppy
Dennis

 

[mikeyk12]

I've taken 3 samples and together they don't equal a pint, so I'd say I'll still have a few beers left out of the 5 gallons I brewed

Totally worth it to me to understand how the gravity drops and how quickly/slowly that happens. My last 2 batches were under attenuated because I wasn't paying attention to gravity.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Yooper]

When the extract is added has very little impact on the final IBUs but what has an extreme impact is what the boil volume was and how much top up water was used. If you achieve 80 IBU in the boil, but that boil volume is only 2.5 gallons out of 5, the water dilution immediately brings it down to 40 IBU.

Yes, that's the important thing to note in extract brewing.

While calculators take boil gravity into account, it really has no bearing on the hops isomerization. (Palmer states he "got it wrong" in How to Brew, and the calculators have not been corrected).

It's impossible to ever get a wort of over 100 IBUs- no matter what it calculates out to, as hops oils will only isomerize to about that level, before the wort is saturated with hops oils.

Even Pliny the Elder, which calculates out to 250 IBUs or so, has been tested and is more like 85 IBUs.

All that means is that dilution is generally the limiting factor in IPAs for extract brewers. As BobbyM noted, even if you had 80 IBUs in the wort, topping up the wort with water to 5 gallons (water of course has 0 IBUs), the resulting wort would have less IBUs than what is calculated.

 

[mikeyk12]

Awesome. Makes sense considering they say the human tongue can't taste over 120 IBUs so therefore all these so-called 120+ beers aren't in fact.

The calculator took into account boil size and then "batch size." My boil amount was 3 gallons and the batch was 5. The only thing I am still curious about is, if it turns out too bitter, I'll need to catch that before I bottle right? That way I can brew a less bitter batch and blend the 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Yooper]

Awesome. Makes sense considering they say the human tongue can't taste over 120 IBUs so therefore all these so-called 120+ beers aren't in fact.

The calculator took into account boil size and then "batch size." My boil amount was 3 gallons and the batch was 5. The only thing I am still curious about is, if it turns out too bitter, I'll need to catch that before I bottle right? That way I can brew a less bitter batch and blend the 2?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

If you ended up with say, 2.5 gallons from the boil, and added water of 2.5 gallons, the absolute most level of IBUs you could have is 50 (as 100 in the wort, and then half water), but it's more likely that the most you had was about 80, so you'd be lucky to have 40-45 IBUs total. That's not too much, and it's one of the reasons making an IPA with a partial boil is almost impossible without using hop extracts.

Remember that carbonation provides a carbonic acid bite, and will also counter some bitterness. I wouldn't think you'd need to lower the bitterness in this beer at all- but if it's undrinkably bitter you could try blending. I wouldn't, as keep in mind that aging the beer a bit also makes a huge difference and this beer probably is probably bittered on the low end for IPAs.

 

[pablosbrewing]

When the extract is added has very little impact on the final IBUs

Simple Beersmith example - 3 gal pot extract profile, 5 gal fermenter volume:

5 lbs extra light DME (in boil 60 minutes)
1 oz Centennial 10% AAU 60 minutes
25.3 IBU

Same exact ingredients - put the DME in at 15 minutes to go
50.8 IBU (2X bitter)

It matters.

Edit: I though this was because of isomerization limits compared to the wort SG. Now I'm not sure based on other comments.

 

[pablosbrewing]

It's impossible to ever get a wort of over 100 IBUs- no matter what it calculates out to, as hops oils will only isomerize to about that level, before the wort is saturated with hops oils.

Q: Do the BJCP styles go above 100 somply because the calculators will report above 100?

 

[Yooper]

Q: Do the BJCP styles go above 100 somply because the calculators will report above 100?

I assume so, or that they are looking at the IBU/SG ratio or something.

It would be possible to get over 100 IBUs in a beer using something like hop extract, but few commercial brewers do this.

 

[pablosbrewing]

I assume so, or that they are looking at the IBU/SG ratio or something.

It would be possible to get over 100 IBUs in a beer using something like hop extract, but few commercial brewers do this.

Er Ma Gherd.

I guess that explains what the hop resin globs in my DIPA primary are - I hit a literal speed bump on hop oil solubility.

 

[mikeyk12]

Thanks Yooper for giving me some extremely solid advice. I plan on getting this beer into bottles as soon as it's ready, and I'm not gonna worry until it's carbed.

Took a measurement today, day 8, and it's down to 1.007 and it's still bubbling in my blow off bucket. Gonna be dryyyyyy.

From left to right 3.5 days, 5 days, 6 days, 8 days.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mikeyk12]

I took a final sample and it was 1.007 again so I'm dry hopping now. Should be ready to bottle on Saturday.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew