Saison Dupont- trying for clove

[youreanimpulse]

So I'm conducting an interesting experiment I thought I would share. I love Saison Dupont because it has a quality to the flavor I generally haven't tasted in other (still awesome) examples of the style. Being relatively new to pinning down beer esters/phenols, I couldn't give it a name until I recently tried some good German hefes and tasted exactly that piece I was missing. I now believe it is what you would call "clove."

So here is my experiment. All Belgian Pilsner malt, step infusion mash starting with a 30 min rest at 113 for ferulic acid, then 30 min at 136, 45 min at 145 and 20 min at 155. Saaz hops to about 27 IBUs (including 2oz at flameout) and a free rise of fermentation from 76 to wherever it goes.

But the most interesting part to me is this: I am pitching a blended culture of about 4 parts WLP565 slurry to one part WY3068 Weizen (one smack pack).

Fermentation kicked off strongly after less than 10 hrs. I will post results here as I get them.

 

[tagz]

Interested to hear how the hefe yeast handles the high temps.

 

[youreanimpulse]

True. The hope is that it won't take over with off flavors with the low percentage vs. Dupont. I will let you know. If it sucks I guess I'll try it again cooler to start. I do want lots of yeast flavor .

 

[youreanimpulse]

I should say the hope now. Somehow I kept thinking about the Dupont method and the hefe yeast never crossed my mind, despite its obviousness. Which is crazy because I've been super pushing temp control lately and it's really been working.

 

[BigPerm]

I should say the hope now. Somehow I kept thinking about the Dupont method and the hefe yeast never crossed my mind, despite its obviousness. Which is crazy because I've been super pushing temp control lately and it's really been working.

FWIW, I made a hefe at the end of last summer with 3068, and let the temp free rise to between 76-78. To be honest, the yeast characteristics were fairly typical in the beginning and, IIRC, there was a decent clove profile but underneath the typical banana. This one faded fast, but I don't remember anything being overtly off (I still have 4 bottles hanging out, but not sure that''s all that informative).

I think you'll be okay, and maybe the 3068 will give 565 the boost it needs without moving heaven and earth to get it to attenuate...

 

[youreanimpulse]

Thanks, BigPerm. That's very reassuring.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Update: sample at 5 days measures 1.014. It's at 85 degrees and it's been there I assume the whole time. Krausen has dropped. No off flavors discernible, just slightly sweet Dupont flavor/aroma. The fruitiness and banana are definitely there. I think I'll have to wait possibly until it's bottle conditioned (or dries out more) to really get the phenol character. It's not super hefe forward in character, though the common flavors are heightened compared to my last saison with this yeast. So far I would say it's a closer "clone" than previous tries. We'll see how it plays out. The sample tastes great warm. Chilling it to taste again in a bit.

 

[helibrewer]

Hefe yeast is one of the few strains that has the enzyme to produce the clove phenol from ferulic acid. It does this best at temps in the low 60's. Higher temps encourage the banana ester formation. The Saison yeast will not produce clove.

 

[kingwood-kid]

Hefe yeast is one of the few strains that has the enzyme to produce the clove phenol from ferulic acid. It does this best at temps in the low 60's. Higher temps encourage the banana ester formation. The Saison yeast will not produce clove.

I think what he's trying to say is to split the batch, one part hefe at 68 or whatever, four(?) parts DuPont at 98.

 

[youreanimpulse]

I think what he's trying to say is to split the batch, one part hefe at 68 or whatever, four(?) parts DuPont at 98.

That's what I get out of it, maybe cooler (62?) on the hefe yeast. Maybe I shouldn't have tried to name it, but I'm still thinking that similarity is a specific spice I pick up in both brews. So I'll take helibrewer's experience that it isn't clove. I don't think I'd call it pepper. As for splitting, totally a good idea for next time. One gallon to 4 gallons sounds about right. I don't know what the hefe yeast is adding to this one, but it's crazy delicious and much more complex than my previous 565 brews. The mash schedule probably helped.

 

[youreanimpulse]

I'm going to keep going with clove. Every other White Labs Saison yeast mentions it in the description, including 566 which is supposed to be another Dupont derivative. I get the temperature thing but I'm actually pretty happy with this experiment so far, and I'm sure I'm going to enjoy drinking it.

 

[youreanimpulse]

Bottled this today, 6 gallons. It smells and tastes so much like Dupont to me. Obviously not able to comment really until it bottle conditions for like 6 weeks (per Dupont's schedule). Ended at 1.006 for about 5.8% which works for me. Can't wait to drink it!

 

[youreanimpulse]

And now I have pitched some of the saved yeast from the saison into 6.5 gal of cider. 2.5 gal freshly juiced at home from 4 varieties bought at the Apple Tasting Festival at the Portland Nursery. 4 gal Ryan's Honeycrisp cider. Tis the season!