Saison Critique

[rayfound]

Can you guys give some critique of my saison recipe I'm working on? Mainly HOP/SPICE additions, but if you have any major faults with the grist I'm all ears too - its just that I've already bought/milled the grain.


RECIPE:
Making an amber Saison. Grain Bill (pretty much fixed at this point - sitting, milled, in my pantry):

Ingredients

Amt Name Type # %/IBU

10 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 69.0 %
2 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 2 13.8 %
1 lbs Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 3 6.9 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.4 %

1 lbs Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.9 %


Hops Wise, I have Styrian Bobek and Columbus (tomahawk) which I purchased for this brew.

I'm not a big fan of the hop characters found in an IPA or such, so I want to make sure I don't overdo the flavor/aroma hops on this.

Thinking around 30IBUs? Any thoughts on what the hop schedule should look like for a nice balance on this?


Spicing: Planning to add to the boil (opinions on blend/quantities/timing?):

2.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.50 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)

Yeast:
Belgian Style Saison Ale Yeast Blend (White Labs #WLP568) [Will make appropriate starter]
Est Original Gravity: 1.072 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.009
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.3 %
Est Color: 14.3 SRM

 

[Polboy]

Im sure it will be beer and many ppl would find it tasty but i like simple saisons. I dont use spices but insted i like to add cascade, citra or other hops in last 20-5min of boil if i want more complexity, for pepery taste i add some rye, little wheat for head retention and crystal or munich for the color, sugar to dry it is a good idea but i would skip aromatic and speciLb, 30ibu sounds good but alcohil is too high to my liking, i would prefer something around 5% but again saison is a broad category and i remember someone adding beats and swear it was great so maybe u wouldnt like my saisons

 

[rayfound]

Bump... Anyone Else?

Polboy, thanks for the thoughts. I do want it 7-8% ABV... I like stronger beers.

I was hoping for the spicing to add background complexity. I took the spice additions and hops from "Cynic" Saison from Northern Brewer (found that recipe in BeerSmith Cloud).

Like I said, right, wrong, or Indifferent, by Grain bill is fixed since it is sitting in my pantry already milled. I added the SpecB + Aromatic to get a touch more complexity/color.

 

[Komodo]

-I always aim for about 7% on mine, but that's personal preference.

-My recipes always aim for about 30 IBU also and I love that

-boil you sugar with a little water and add it after the main krausen is has fallen (or about 36-48 hours). You don't need to chill it, just boil, and dump it in. Thermal variance will cool it almost instantly.

-I haven't messed with the spices yet except for the dried orange peels. I seriously doubt you'll even taste them. I've tried sweet and bitter and up to 1 oz. I just did orange zest, and it's a big PITA and will taste more like . . .old orange juice than the rich delicate orangey aroma you have in your head.

-A little Special B goes a long way and adds a kind of raisiny dark fruit that is great for dubbels, but I don't like it in my Saison. I like it dry, with any fruit coming from yeast only. In a very small quantity as you have it may be great.

-not sure on the hops, all I use is Saaz and Tettnang. Tett is the bomb.

-let it ferment for 3-4 weeks, don't be afraid to let the temp rise.

 

[mewithstewpid]

i agree about simplicity. while this will produce a great beer, i like my saisons simple, 2-row, belgian candy sugar, and a little biscuit and wheat malt.


In terms of hops, id do a pretty generous addition of styrian at 10 and 0. while its all preference, saisons are supposed to by hoppy, and i think styrian bobek was a great choice for a hop to highlight.

 

[MrOH]

A lot more heavier flavors than I prefer in the grist, but since it's ready to go, let it go. I'd say forget the columbus and go straight bobek the whole way. Maybe drop the orange peel to .25 as well.

 

[smokinghole]

I don't care whats in the grist but I dislike additional spicing in a saison typically. Just because the yeast is so peppery and complex on its own I tend to just go with yeast. I like mine dry dry dry. I always use brett in mine also with a quick turn around time. I let it ferment out give it time to clear up a bit and take a gravity reading. Then I bottle and depending on the gravity I figure for brett to build additional carb in the bottles. So if there's between 4-8 gravity points that I think will ferment out in the bottle with the brett I will only prime for like 1.5-2.5 volumes with sugar and let the brett bring up the rest of the carb. Mine typically end up at about 1.002-1.005 fairly quickly before I bottle though. Then they basically dry out rest of the way in the bottle. Mine are all malt and no sugar because my techniques for brewing saison give me a dry beer with out the need to add sugar.

If the point of the aromatic and special B is to give a slight amber color you can just use pale malt to get roughly the same color with a little midnight wheat or something. If you're going for a heavier malt flavor and caramel raisin flavor then keep those specialty grain additions.

 

[rayfound]

Alright, I'll drop the spicing. Let the yeast do that job. Temp schedules? I have a heating pad and stc-1000. Start lower and ramp up or just start it warm and let 'er rip?

 

[mewithstewpid]

im not against spicing, a lot of saisons are spiced with pepper, ginger and orange peel. either way, with just saison yeast fermented hot, or added spices, it wil be good.

i also agree just go bobek all the way

 

[pdxal]

Special B is out of character for a Saison.
If set on Columbus and Styrian Bobek, I'd bitter with the Columbus and flavor and aroma with 100% Styrian Bobek.
Aromatic and Munich will probably make it a little too malty, but will give you color and wouldn't be as off tasting in a Saison as the Special B.
20-30 IBUs should work well for this beer, closer to 30 will help offset the maltiness in the grist.
The yeast should give you lots of spice flavors, but if it has to be spiced I'd up the orange peel and lower the seeds of paradise, and completely drop the coriander, but that's just my preference. You could always skip the spices, let it ferment out, and if it ends up not spicy enough make a tea from them or vodka tincture with the spices and add it at the end of fermentation or at bottling.
Good luck.

 

[Schumed]

What's your fermentation temp going to be.....most the characteristics of Saisons come from the yeast and temp control.....I usually go with 48 hours at 68 and raise one degree each day until I hit 78....let it sit two weeks

I've had good results with this method.....I made a simple Saison with just pilsner and Sorachi ace hops

 

[rayfound]

I was planning on a similar schedule.... Start modest then ramp up over ferment duration.


I added special b mainly for color and figured I may as well try to get some dark fruit flavors too, but it might end up a mistake.

Will mash extra low to try and limit sweetness.

 

[Schumed]

I was planning on a similar schedule.... Start modest then ramp up over ferment duration.

I added special b mainly for color and figured I may as well try to get some dark fruit flavors too, but it might end up a mistake.

Will mash extra low to try and limit sweetness.

If you want color add some dark candi sugsr/syrup ....look up the thread about making your own

This was a Dark Saison our Brew Club did for a Group brew

7lb Pilsner
1lb Munich
1lb Wheat
4oz CaraMunich

1lb Homemade Dark Candi Syrup

1oz Magnum 60
1oz Hallertauer 15

I used Wyeast Belgium Stout yeast

Added Dried cranberries in secondary (It was Thanksgiving)

One of the best beers I've made to date