Safale S-33 Experience
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I brewed a Belgian Pale Ale OG 1056 on saturday. pitched at 68f.
Sunday morning krauzen was up 71F. Today (monday) i come home from work to a fallen krauzen and i can detect some sulfur / rotten eggs going on. Anyone come across sulfur notes during fermentation on s-33 ?
Sunday morning krauzen was up 71F. Today (monday) i come home from work to a fallen krauzen and i can detect some sulfur / rotten eggs going on. Anyone come across sulfur notes during fermentation on s-33 ?
I did not, but I fermented in the low 60's.
This is a result your substrate, or wort mixture, that the yeast has metabolized. I have used the S-33 many times and have not encountered this. It is either a result of a non-yeast related reaction in your mixture , or from the by-product of bacterial contamination. My suggestion is to taste the mix at some time and if is good, continue on..
Here is a quote from a great reference about the biochemistry of yeast metabolism, that is a great read, provided you have studied biochemistry
...
"Yeast requires sulfur for the production of proteins, coenzymes, vitamins, etc., and takes up organic sulfur from wort, chiefly as methionine, and inorganic sulfur in he form of sulfate (152). Hydrogen sulfide is generated during yeast metabolism and depends, in brewery fermentation, on the yeast strain used, the temperature, and the wort composition (123). The gas, unpleasant over certain threshold levels, arises either from leakage of sulfide ions during the enzymic reduction of sulfate or more likely by the action of cysteine desulfhydrase on cysteine (133). Mercaptans, sulfides, and thicarboxyls have been implicated in the flavor of beer (227). Nevertheless, growth of yeast in synthetic media and wort gives rise to no significant levels of volatile organic sulfur compounds (97,176). these compounds arise from nonenzymic reaction in the beer (170) and from the metabolism of spoilage bacteria (1)."
From:
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/mashtun/kleyn.html
Here is a quote from a great reference about the biochemistry of yeast metabolism, that is a great read, provided you have studied biochemistry
..."Yeast requires sulfur for the production of proteins, coenzymes, vitamins, etc., and takes up organic sulfur from wort, chiefly as methionine, and inorganic sulfur in he form of sulfate (152). Hydrogen sulfide is generated during yeast metabolism and depends, in brewery fermentation, on the yeast strain used, the temperature, and the wort composition (123). The gas, unpleasant over certain threshold levels, arises either from leakage of sulfide ions during the enzymic reduction of sulfate or more likely by the action of cysteine desulfhydrase on cysteine (133). Mercaptans, sulfides, and thicarboxyls have been implicated in the flavor of beer (227). Nevertheless, growth of yeast in synthetic media and wort gives rise to no significant levels of volatile organic sulfur compounds (97,176). these compounds arise from nonenzymic reaction in the beer (170) and from the metabolism of spoilage bacteria (1)."
From:
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/mashtun/kleyn.html
i kegged this up a few weeks ago FG 1020 and it tasted pretty great. no infection. soo after a few weeks priming i've put it in the fridge. taste pretty great however its slightly yeasty and unfortunately can give you some pretty gnarly gas subsequently the flatulence smells like that sulfur during fermentation... heh . don't think i'll be repitching this yeast like i planned.
Although there was nothing really wrong with i when i used it, I doubt I'll use it again. If I need a low attenuating strain, I'll prob go with wlp002.
badhabit
Well-Known Member
My experiance with S-33 has been with a Belgian Dubble. I make it often and like it a lot. My FG stays pretty high, 017 but it is done fermenting at that point. I use to have issues with the fermentation process wich seemed to start fast and go crazy for up to about 72 hours and then stop. I tried shaking and stiring, even tried raising temp to over 70 for a couple weeks. I finally ended up using a primary for a week, secondary for two weeks and then a 90 day condition and just letting the fermentation happen without my attempt to controal. I ferment between 65 and 68, closer to the 65 on most occasions. As noted the result is much to my liking, a complex beer with a clean malt and clean but slight hop flavor and a slightly floral finish. At the time of conditioning there is a very notable ester taste but that disapates with the long condition.
madmike9729
New Member
I recently made a belgian specialty using the s-33 yeast. I used a huge amount of pale malt, honey malt, aromatic and brewed with orange peel and coriander. It was a 9.2 ABV beer that tasted wonderful and became crystal clear in the keg. It also had that hint of banana and clove that traditional belgian strains often have. It's a great product in my experience.
Wish i had seen this thread when searching before useing 33, so ill put my expereince in, with it,this is a good thread for somebody new to this yeast, i also apreaciate everybodys input.
I brewed a french ale and a belgian pale ale and now a smoked scottish 80. With s-33. I just bottled the french ale and tasted great maybe the best.Besides a lacto infection, looking with white flaky layer on top. I just descoverd that i topped this one off with water after the boil with distilled water i had been using for rinsing,well it was near the bottem of the jug and i should have sanitized the rim of the jug before topping off.Lesson learned and glad i noted everything.I thought it was the yeast because i never used it but i never topp off either,now i know why.
My other two dont have this infection as i third my yeast packs because i do small batches roll and wrap up and vacuue the yeast seal back to the fridge.My french ale that had this infection had this yeast used first from the pack so i ruled that out for infection.Ive been succesfull in reusing/splitting yeast packs always 100% out of a few dozen batches so far.As far as topping off, i think i will only try this with a new sealed jug just to be safe next time.
I had the highest fg also for the first time using this but i mashed in the upper 50's so it was intentional, just wasnt expecting a .018 with a 1.05ish OG.I gave it 4 weeks at 67 deg. Tasted fantastic.Im liking this yeast so far.
I brewed a french ale and a belgian pale ale and now a smoked scottish 80. With s-33. I just bottled the french ale and tasted great maybe the best.Besides a lacto infection, looking with white flaky layer on top. I just descoverd that i topped this one off with water after the boil with distilled water i had been using for rinsing,well it was near the bottem of the jug and i should have sanitized the rim of the jug before topping off.Lesson learned and glad i noted everything.I thought it was the yeast because i never used it but i never topp off either,now i know why.
My other two dont have this infection as i third my yeast packs because i do small batches roll and wrap up and vacuue the yeast seal back to the fridge.My french ale that had this infection had this yeast used first from the pack so i ruled that out for infection.Ive been succesfull in reusing/splitting yeast packs always 100% out of a few dozen batches so far.As far as topping off, i think i will only try this with a new sealed jug just to be safe next time.
I had the highest fg also for the first time using this but i mashed in the upper 50's so it was intentional, just wasnt expecting a .018 with a 1.05ish OG.I gave it 4 weeks at 67 deg. Tasted fantastic.Im liking this yeast so far.
Same here. Fermented at just about the same temp and left it to sit around 66. 6 days in and I'm only down to 1.029 from 1.064. I gave it a rouse and left to chest freezer open. I'd like to see low 1.020's if possible. It took off like a rocket at about 12 hours. First time in a while I've seen krausen come out of my airlock. Then it just died.
I know im replying with my quote but just updating more of a s-33 experience.In the french ale that i thought had lacto which may be has turned out great with a nice belgiany aroma reminds me of SN Saison. The smoke malt in my scottish 80 has came out and that is turning out great also. My belgian pale ale is lacking in the estery dept as its hop and carmal malt forward but over time im shure it will change more.
I just think my high 60's ferment should have been more like 73 instead.This is about @ a month of bottle conditioning so i wouldnt fully judge this s-33 yet as im shure the yeast will come out more as the hops fade in the belgian pale ale.
As to anybody and this white flaky layer on top.Rack over it and bottle it, segregate it and keep an eye on it just in case.Dont dump.Ive had no overcarbonation and they are clearing brilliantly. They are tasting better and the yeast aroma is pretty nice.
Woodbury419
Well-Known Member
I love using this yeast, if you able to keep it for more than 5 generations it makes an outstanding workhorse imho.
I used S33 for a batch of pale ale that I brewed yesterday. I pitched 2 packets into a 2.5 gallon batch. (NB golden extract and whole cascade hops) I got very aggressive ferm right away, within 1 hour there was kreusen but this morning, after about 12 hours, it has slowed waaayy down. The top kreusen is gone and the bubbles are only coming out about every 10-15 seconds. From what I'm reading here this seems normal for this yeast, an aggressive start then a moderate to slow finish. Oh and the temp in my basement varies from 70-75F right now, cooler in the evening then it warms up in the day. I plan to give it about 4 days then dry hop with Citra.
ThePonchoKid
Well-Known Member
needs more s-33
mountainman13
Well-Known Member
Holy crap, dude! It probably finished in 12 hours! 2 packs for a 2.5 gal batch is insane. 2 packs of this stuff is damn near enough to do 25 gallons(if you are trying to stress it, anyway)
Yeah, 2 packs seems excessive for a 2.5 gallon pale ale (1.040-1.050) range)? Best thin is to take a gravity reading in a few days. Only way to tell whether it just finished quick or crapped out early...
I've read much here and elsewhere about pitching "plenty of yeast". I've been brewing 2.5 gallon batches lately, and pitching typically 2 packets of dry yeast. I like pitching this much because I know I'll get enough active yeast to out-compete any infection, and I like to see ferm start quickly. I've got other kinks in my process I'm trying to work out right now too, over-priming for instance. I honestly don't know if I'm "beer geek" enough (yet) to say that I would be able to tell the difference between beer that was over pitched, under pitched, or pitched just right.
quite the opposite, the OP way over-pitched. fermentation finished so quickly because there was no need for a growth phase.
ubenumber2
Active Member
I just brewed my first batch in 4 years and used a pack and a half of this stuff in a 5 gallon batch , did a partial mash and made a belgiumish beer I would call it. Made a quick starter for the yeast , pitched and fermented at 65f for a two days, this stuff went nuts , most active fermentation I have ever had, then slowly worked it up to 72 by day 8 , it went from 1.069 to 1.016 which is what my calculations worked it out to be , I tasted today while checking the sg and will have to say I was pleased with the flavor , cant wait for this stuff to get in the bottle and sit for a few weeks , I will check again in a couple of days , then drop the temp down to 45 for 5 days , then bottle, hopefully
I've used s33 a few times so far and I've been really happy with it. I made a 100% white wheat beer with low IBUs and stressed s33. I get a hint of green apple when I swirl up and pour the sediment. If I don't pour the sediment, the beer is seriously crystal clear and I get no green apple.
I stressed the yeast by pitching warm and I kept the fermenter warm (~75) for the first day or two. The beers where I didn't stress the s33 ended up impressively clean. I like it.
I stressed the yeast by pitching warm and I kept the fermenter warm (~75) for the first day or two. The beers where I didn't stress the s33 ended up impressively clean. I like it.
slightly OT, but you're using the wrong term here. pitching warm does not stress the yeast. you are correct in as much as it impacts flavor, by causing the yeast to throw off more esters and fusel alcohols. at lower temps the yeast produce less of these compounds, which have very noticeable tastes, hence the cleaner flavor. heat doesn't stress the yeast, in fact it makes life easier for them. all those flavors are due to the yeast partying too much!
stressing the yeast =
- under-pitching so the yeast has to work hard to reproduce sufficiently,
- pitching into a high alcohol environment,
- pitching into a low-nutrient environment,
- etc
Pitched a pack of this on a 5gal Holiday Ale (killed my planned yeast by assuming the beer was already cool enough....R.I.P. Yeasties). Should be interesting to see how this turns out. Active fermentation after about 8 hrs at 68 degrees. Had not planned on the belgian flavor profile on a Holiday beer but if it works, I plan to dub this Dark Contract Holiday Ale.
ubenumber2
Active Member
Has anyone washed this yeast? I have 4 jars in the fridge and I am going to try and make an IPA after washing it off of a belgium dubbel , kind of wondering if anyone has had any luck with a second generation of this yeast or if Im wasting my time
Obliviousbrew
Well-Known Member
I really hate s-33
Edit: I just noticed that this is my post #666
Edit: I just noticed that this is my post #666
+1.060
Obliviousbrew
Well-Known Member
That and s-23 made the worst two beers that I´ve ever made. I almost give up on fermentis because of those two but found out that US-05 works pretty good for me
S-23 is the only yeast I've ever found that I like less than S-33.
Ogri
Well-Known Member
I'm drinking a witbier with yuzu and Ginger concentrate additions that I fermented with s-33, at about 74-76f. Four weeks in primary and it's only been in the bottle for 10 days so far but really good carbonation, great head retention and I'm really enjoying the flavours and aromas
There's definitely a hint of banana, some spice from the Ginger plus a little citrus from the yuzu and the hopping is just right. Will definitely brew again with s-33 but am also keen to give t-58 a try, too.
There's definitely a hint of banana, some spice from the Ginger plus a little citrus from the yuzu and the hopping is just right. Will definitely brew again with s-33 but am also keen to give t-58 a try, too.
ao125
Well-Known Member
I made a cider out of S-33, and it had almost undrinkable levels of sulfur that never went away.
I made a Belgian strong with s33 using maple sap as my strike water. Primaried for a month and force carbed over a couple of weeks. Then I poured a pint of cloudy sickly sweet bananay bs. Next I complained to my wife how bad a beer I made and how I felt like I wasted 10 gallons of maple sap. I brought a couple of growlers to a party to trick people into helping empty the keg and got quite a few complements that I wasn't expecting from beer drinking types. Now I wish I had those couple of gallons back to bottle age. The moral is s33 needs the secret ingredient of time to not taste like sweet rotten banana swill.
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Little necro-threadopoly...
I was reading this thinking how many people had problems with this strain as a result of under pitching?
I just made a beer and double pitched rehydrated S-33.
I checked my pitching rate with Mr malty... I think I'm good. Said I need 1.3 packs at 1.075.
I pitched two so I'm good up to 1.123
I'm getting a lot of banana ester or smells from the air lock.... LOL
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580212
http://mrmalty.com/yeast-tools.php
I was reading this thinking how many people had problems with this strain as a result of under pitching?
I just made a beer and double pitched rehydrated S-33.
I checked my pitching rate with Mr malty... I think I'm good. Said I need 1.3 packs at 1.075.
I pitched two so I'm good up to 1.123
I'm getting a lot of banana ester or smells from the air lock.... LOL
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580212
http://mrmalty.com/yeast-tools.php
I'm about to use S-33 in a malt gingerale, where a little under-attenuation will be a good thing.
I have used its cousin T-58 a few times; in a modest-gravity wheat beer it was awesome. In a high-gravity beer it was a disaster (the finished beer tasted sweeter than the wort that I started with, even tho' the gravity had dropped to 1.020) Maybe S-33 should be used in low gravity British beers for best effect, even if it does have a high alcohol tolerance.
I have used its cousin T-58 a few times; in a modest-gravity wheat beer it was awesome. In a high-gravity beer it was a disaster (the finished beer tasted sweeter than the wort that I started with, even tho' the gravity had dropped to 1.020) Maybe S-33 should be used in low gravity British beers for best effect, even if it does have a high alcohol tolerance.
William656
Member
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Brewed a 10 gallon batch of a Saison and pitched 5 gallons with T-58 and the other 5 gallons with S-33.
14lbs Castle Pilsner
1lb White Wheat
1lb Acid Malt
3lbs Munich
1lb Carafoam
3lbs Beet Sugar
Mashed at 148 degF for 3 hours (went shopping). 74% efficientcy. Boiled for 90 mins.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiC2XVS2ap5jEZKrv
OG 1.060
3oz Tradition for 60 mins (4.4%)
1oz Hallertauer for 20 mins (1.6%)
Irish moss, 11 grams bitter orange peel, and 10 grams coriander seed for 10 mins
1oz Hallertauer for 5 mins (1.6%)
Chilled to 70 degF with counterflow circulating ice water. Rehydrated both yeasts in boiled and chilled water. Used one sachet each. 11.5 grams. Pitched and aerate by shaking the plastic buckets I used. Set the fermentation chamber at 68 degF and let it ferment for one week until today. Fermentation was rocking like crazy when I first checked 12 hours later on both strains.
As of today:
T-58 was at 1.008
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiGQrddg0KqzsgpSm
and S-33 was down to 1.010.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiGgeaRCinlfm3tRn
T-58 had a delicious, well balanced spicy, clove, fruity flavor with apricots and slight bubblegum that worked very well.
EDIT: Forgot to mention this really pleasant MILD tartness this yeast brought out. I didn't put much acid malt in the mash and it's subtle, but wonderful.
S-33 also tasted very delicious. More fruity with stone fruits and very light spicing. Both very pale and still super cloudy. Very effervescent. Ramped temp up to 72degF.
EDIT: No impression of tartness.
I think they are both going to turn out very well. These aren't over the top Belgian flavors, but I also kept the temp at 68. The T-58 had quite a bit more of that bubble gum/clove with very slight banana which I thought was very good, just the right amount. The S-33 was fruitier and had less Belgian character. Very subtle, but there. I really liked it too.
FWIW, I've been brewing for 16 years and mostly relied on liquid cultures. I live in a place that's really remote and gets wicked hot in the summer so shipping liquid cultures won't work. Really playing around with the dry yeast just to see if they are viable options. I'm surprised there are so many nay sayers regarding the S-33, but for me, I think this beer will be very good and so far, I would not hesitate to use it again. It would probably also work real well in a Golden Strong.
14lbs Castle Pilsner
1lb White Wheat
1lb Acid Malt
3lbs Munich
1lb Carafoam
3lbs Beet Sugar
Mashed at 148 degF for 3 hours (went shopping). 74% efficientcy. Boiled for 90 mins.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiC2XVS2ap5jEZKrv
OG 1.060
3oz Tradition for 60 mins (4.4%)
1oz Hallertauer for 20 mins (1.6%)
Irish moss, 11 grams bitter orange peel, and 10 grams coriander seed for 10 mins
1oz Hallertauer for 5 mins (1.6%)
Chilled to 70 degF with counterflow circulating ice water. Rehydrated both yeasts in boiled and chilled water. Used one sachet each. 11.5 grams. Pitched and aerate by shaking the plastic buckets I used. Set the fermentation chamber at 68 degF and let it ferment for one week until today. Fermentation was rocking like crazy when I first checked 12 hours later on both strains.
As of today:
T-58 was at 1.008
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiGQrddg0KqzsgpSm
and S-33 was down to 1.010.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AoNJ9IUbtwrbiGgeaRCinlfm3tRn
T-58 had a delicious, well balanced spicy, clove, fruity flavor with apricots and slight bubblegum that worked very well.
EDIT: Forgot to mention this really pleasant MILD tartness this yeast brought out. I didn't put much acid malt in the mash and it's subtle, but wonderful.
S-33 also tasted very delicious. More fruity with stone fruits and very light spicing. Both very pale and still super cloudy. Very effervescent. Ramped temp up to 72degF.
EDIT: No impression of tartness.
I think they are both going to turn out very well. These aren't over the top Belgian flavors, but I also kept the temp at 68. The T-58 had quite a bit more of that bubble gum/clove with very slight banana which I thought was very good, just the right amount. The S-33 was fruitier and had less Belgian character. Very subtle, but there. I really liked it too.
FWIW, I've been brewing for 16 years and mostly relied on liquid cultures. I live in a place that's really remote and gets wicked hot in the summer so shipping liquid cultures won't work. Really playing around with the dry yeast just to see if they are viable options. I'm surprised there are so many nay sayers regarding the S-33, but for me, I think this beer will be very good and so far, I would not hesitate to use it again. It would probably also work real well in a Golden Strong.
