S-04 good or bad.

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From another thread, there was put forward that a significant proportion of brewers do not like S-04

  • I really like S-04

    Votes: 15 23.1%

  • I like S-04

    Votes: 29 44.6%

  • I can take it or leave it

    Votes: 11 16.9%

  • I don't care for S-04

    Votes: 9 13.8%

  • I hate S-04

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Total voters
    65
  • Poll closed .
kh54s10

kh54s10

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In another thread I got someone saying a significant number of homebrewers do not like S-04. I have had zero issues with it and have not heard a big dislike. What do you say?

Added: This is about whether you like or dislike S-04, and not a comparison to, or a preference for another yeast.
 
Last edited:
Just like a thread I recently created about WLP820. Any yeast can perform well if you play within the specified boundaries of the particular strain.
 
Might as well chime in here as I did in the other post. The only strain I've used thus far that I would not use again. Reliable fermenter, just don't like the flavor profile until the beer has had extended aging time.

Somewhere between "don't care for" and "hate it."
 
So far 8 like it, 2 neutral and one hate. I would say it is not anywhere near a significant amount of homebrewers who dislike S-04
 
We used it as our house strain at the first brewery I worked at. I like it as it does what it says on the tin; so to speak. It’s an easy ‘British’ ale yeast to use, apparently close/derived from Whitbred strain.
 
It's always about the right tool for the right job, IMHO. S-04 is a yeast with character, and your malt bill and hops should not get overpowered by it. I once used S-04 for an Arrogant Bastard clone, it fit perfectly.

Also, I'm a fan of yeast strains that flocculate well.
 
HTH1975 said:
apparently close/derived from Whitbred strain.
Click to expand...

Although that's the conventional wisdom, DNA sequencing published a year ago has shown that it's got no links to the homebrew strains conventionally linked to Whitbread, like 1098 and WLP007. Instead it's closest to WLP006 Bedford and WLP013 London.

I think the real issue is not so much how many people do or don't like S-04, but why and how. The usual complain seems to be the tartness which is often linked to fermenting over 68F. The fact that high temperature is often mentioned suggests there may be something to that, but one should also consider other factors like taste preferences and other pH-altering practices. So for instance, the main lab near Burton, Murphy's recommend that cask beer should have a final pH of 3.7-4.1, rather less than the typical US beer once it's been degassed. But if you had any beer that was at a "Murphy" pH and then added a ton of carbonic acid by carbing it to Belgian levels, then that carbonic acid is going to appear tart. It seems likely that yes S-04 does come out on the side of low pH compared to other yeasts, but non-British fermentation and carbonation practices may play a part in whether that becomes unpleasantly tart.

So "haters", what temperature did you ferment at and how did you carbonate?
 
day_trippr said:
lmao. A few hours versus plenty of threads to the contrary.
And good luck with that Statistics course...

Cheers! ;)
Click to expand...

Never said this would be statistically accurate thing. It is just a poll.

5 like - 68.2%
4 neutral - 18.2%
3 dislike - 13.6% Again this is an informal poll only.......

Despite your "plenty of threads" it does not seem there is a great dislike for S-04
 
kh54s10 said:
In another thread I got someone saying a significant number of homebrewers do not like S-04. I have had zero issues with it and have not heard a big dislike. What do you say?
Click to expand...
I've only used it once, and it was on top of a yeast that was inactive 36 hrs , so I cant give a good vote either way.
 
It's a great yeast. Really versatile and easy to use. It's great for beginners because you don't need to make a starter. It's also great for experienced brewers who want a more simple process. It also lasts a long time if properly stored. Can I change my vote to "really like'?
 
I am totally biased, but IMO, S-04 is the "Wonder Bread" of UK brewing yeasts. The fact that it tastes bready and somewhat tart even when fermented cool does not help it in my opinion. That said, it makes drinkable beer and is very easy to use.
 
It's fine. It works reliably and the flavor is fine but for English beer styles it isn't my favorite strain to use.
 
bierhaus15 said:
I am totally biased, but IMO, S-04 is the "Wonder Bread" of UK brewing yeasts.
Click to expand...

Not biased - experienced, a big difference. The opinions of ten people who are happy with S-04 because they've never used anything other than US-05, don't count for much compared to someone who has brewed with dozens of British strains.

Had to look up Wonder Bread though, it seems to be a rough equivalent of Sunblest for British readers. :)
 
Northern_Brewer said:
Not biased - experienced, a big difference. The opinions of ten people who are happy with S-04 because they've never used anything other than US-05, don't count for much compared to someone who has brewed with dozens of British strains.

Had to look up Wonder Bread though, it seems to be a rough equivalent of Sunblest for British readers. :)
Click to expand...

I have used other White Labs strains and S-04. The yeasts are different. That’s for sure but S-04 isn’t lacking in any respects. It’s just a different flavor profile. I used WLP 013 recently for a milk stout. It was great. Has a nice light oak aroma. For me, I just wanted to try something different after using S 04 and 05 for a lot of beers.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
The opinions of ten people who are happy with S-04 because they've never used anything other than US-05, don't count for much compared to someone who has brewed with dozens of British strains.
Click to expand...

So you are saying that none of the (22 now) that like S-04 have brewed with anything but S-04 and US-05???

And there is nothing in either thread that said it was the best. It was stated that a significant portion of homebrewers do not like it. 14.7% (so far) to me is not very significant.
 
I personally don't like it for homebrew use. I don't care for the flavor profile in bitters, pales, ipa's, apa's, dipa's, or anything without roasted grains, which is 90 percent of what I make at home. I prefer 1968. Of course the flavor I get from 04 is very dependent on my fermentation practises. At the brewery we use it in a very limited fashion. Maybe 1 out of 10 brews.
 
Used properly it is A great yeast. We just killed a keg of whisky barrel stout made with it and are about to tap a keg of honey brown. Both fermented at 67°-68°. No noticeable extra tartness, yeast cleans up after itself nicely and settles out great. What's not to like?
 
In my experience with this yeast, it ferments VERY vigorously and makes my fermentation chamber turn on more than any yeast I've used so far.

Those without active/adequate fermentation control may get undesired flavors due to the liquid temp getting out of control.

I like it.
 
I voted Really Like. I suppose it depends on what type of beer you are making, but it works great for my New England IPA's. It ferments very quickly (less than 12 hours) and flocculates great. With that said, I defer to Northern_Brewer, because I have not used a lot of other yeasts. I also purposely turn up the temps, starting at 67 and finishing at 72 -- I am looking for fruity esters and certainly don't mind some tart flavors for my Citra-based NEIPA's.
 
kh54s10 said:
So you are saying that none of the (22 now) that like S-04 have brewed with anything but S-04 and US-05???
Click to expand...

Well we don't know either way. But no I wasn't saying that - I wasn't counting votes, just using 10 as a random number of people. But yes, I do weight people's comments by their experience, and that's particularly important with something that's positioned as an easy-to-use product that's suitable for beginners.

kh54s10 said:
And there is nothing in either thread that said it was the best. It was stated that a significant portion of homebrewers do not like it. 14.7% (so far) to me is not very significant.
Click to expand...

Now 18.3%; 5% is the usual significance level in science... But just generally 1 in 6 suggests that there's something going on, even if most people are happy enough. And I'd rather tease out the whys and wherefores of the conditions where people are unhappy with it than just breeze on as though everything's OK.
 
We can knit pic it. About 2 hours ago it was down to 13.4% don't like. And 18.3 is getting close to where I might say significant.

But then you could look at Really like vs Hate. 12 to 1....
 
FVillatoro said:
In my experience with this yeast, it ferments VERY vigorously and makes my fermentation chamber turn on more than any yeast I've used so far.

Those without active/adequate fermentation control may get undesired flavors due to the liquid temp getting out of control.

I like it.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what happened to me. I’ve used it twice for sure and I think that my very first beer kit came with it. On the one that ran away with the exothermic reaction, it got up to 84 degrees and I could taste a lot of hot alcohol flavors. Ironically, I saved one of those beers and it sat in my fridge for 6 months and was delicious. The other time I knowingly used it, I was all over it keeping it cool and I got peach flavors that I didn’t prefer. I use US-05 most often, then Nottingham. I also like Windsor. So for my process which includes manual fermentation control.

Nay

But that doesn’t make it a bad yeast, just not for me right now.
 
Like some people have mentioned, I've had the best luck with brown ale, porters and stouts at 64 ish. degs. Keep it cool. I say yes.
 
As a scientist, the references to "statistical" and "significant" and "5%" make me want to scream!
 
brownni5 said:
As a scientist, the references to "statistical" and "significant" and "5%" make me want to scream!
Click to expand...

Truth ^

Northern_Brewer said:
Well we don't know either way. But no I wasn't saying that - I wasn't counting votes, just using 10 as a random number of people. But yes, I do weight people's comments by their experience, and that's particularly important with something that's positioned as an easy-to-use product that's suitable for beginners.
Click to expand...

I have to say this: someone's experience isn't probably relevant to whether they like something or not. I don't care for Belgians; that reflect nothing more than what I like...and don't like. Experience has nothing to do with it.

Now 18.3%; 5% is the usual significance level in science... But just generally 1 in 6 suggests that there's something going on, even if most people are happy enough. And I'd rather tease out the whys and wherefores of the conditions where people are unhappy with it than just breeze on as though everything's OK.
Click to expand...

Not a proper use of the idea (I'm a scientist too, graduate minor in statistics). A figure of 18.3% has nothing to do with significance in a statistical sense. It just is.

Now, if you're doing hypothesis testing, that's a different story, but I don't recall seeing a null hypothesis, so in the absence of such, it's just a number.

And that said: it's just what people like or don't like. S-04 is what it is. Some like it. Some don't. Kinda like Belgians.... :)
 

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