S-04, carbonation & bananas

[TheBeerNerd]

4 weeks ago I brewed a batch of my APA. To save a little money, I went with dry yeast. Used S-04 by recommendation of LHBS.
The beer spent 1 week in primary, 2 in secondary and 1 in bottles. Just cracked my first bottle and it tastes like bananas! The taste is very strong, only a bit of my bittering addition comes through.
It also barely carbonated, but I read somewhere that S-04 takes a bit longer to carbonate....
Previously I always used Wyeast 1056 and had decent beer at this stage. My APA always seems a bit better when it's green... Will aging help sort out that flavor? Am I right about the carbonation? Never tasted anything like this before...

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Another bad recommendation from the LHBS. They should have suggested US-05, not 04. S-04 is an English strain which is why you're tasting bananas. It won't go away much but will fade a little with time.

As for carbonation...they've only been in the bottle for a week. Carbonation needs AT LEAST 2 weeks. Even if they're carbonated before that, they're probably not ready to drink. Let them sit another few weeks and check again.

 

[WVbrewer]

I use S-04 for most of my brews, including APA's. I've never had banana flavors like you describe. However, I ferment around 65f. Are you fermenting warmer? What are your mash temps if mashing? S-04 will produce esters (like almost any yeast) at high temps. Time may help....

As far as carbonation, S-04 takes about 3-4 weeks at 65-70f with my beers. 1056 or S-05 is definitely faster.....it doesn't flocculate as fast as S-04. Hope that helps

 

[sonetlumiere85]

Ester production by S-04 is more pronounced with stressed yeast. What was your OG? How did you aerate? Those factors probably have a lot more to do with what you're tasting, which, by the way, is way too green to be able to draw any substantial conclusions.

 

[TheBeerNerd]

Fermented with ambient temp @ 62. Fermometer read 70. OG was 1.050, FG 1.012. Aeration was just shaking (no stone yet).
I haven't worked with dry yeast since my first batch and not accustomed to Safale's strains... I guess S-04 just takes a bit longer. Was also suprised to see fermentation take off after 4 hours...

 

[sonetlumiere85]

Yeah so you fermented at 70, which is an adequately high temperature to produce plenty of esters. Most British and American yeasts will produce esters above 68.

 

[ghpeel]

I dunno, 70F seems not hot enough to me to get banana out of S-04 and I use it quite a bit with no proper temp control, just the ol' swamp cooler method. I say let it sit another 2-3 weeks and try another.

 

[Adaman05]

Going to have to resurrect an old thread. I brewed up a batch of Zombie Dust and used s-04 for the first time. We bottled it last weekend and it smelled and tasted like bananas. Ambient temperature was between 62-65. Primary for 10 days, then added dry hops for 8 days, cold crashed for 2 more, and bottled. Will this go away with time? My brewing buddy liked the taste, but I was hoping for a lot more grapefruit due to all the citra.

 

[thasnazzle]

I dont get grapefruit from Citra. haven't had zombie dust quantities of citra, though.

 

[Yooper]

Going to have to resurrect an old thread. I brewed up a batch of Zombie Dust and used s-04 for the first time. We bottled it last weekend and it smelled and tasted like bananas. Ambient temperature was between 62-65. Primary for 10 days, then added dry hops for 8 days, cold crashed for 2 more, and bottled. Will this go away with time? My brewing buddy liked the taste, but I was hoping for a lot more grapefruit due to all the citra.

It probably won't fade much unfortunately. If the ambient was 65, it's possible that an active fermentation could have been 75 inside the fermenter since fermentation itself produces heat.

I only use S04 in about 60-62 ambient temperatures, and keep it cool in a water bath with frozen water bottles if needed to keep it at no higher than 64 degrees. It gets terribly fruity and sort of weird tasting if it hits 68 or more.

Citra hops aren't grapefruity at all- they are "tropical" fruit tasting- like mangoes with a hint of coconut. I made an all citra beer once, and it screamed MANGO to me. I then dryhopped it with cascade to try to cover some of that, and it had a distinct Juicy Fruit gum smell and flavor.

 

[Adaman05]

Well, when I left my brew bud's house, I had him turn his thermostat down to 62. I checked it when I arrived for bottling, and it read 65. Hmmm.... And yes, I'm going for the tropical fruit taste of zombie dust. Maybe it's more mango than grapefruit. Either way, it is NOT bananas. Oh well, I guess this batch will be a banana ester pale ale.

 

[seanybubbles]

Never had good luck with s-04........

 

[BigFloyd]

It probably won't fade much unfortunately. If the ambient was 65, it's possible that an active fermentation could have been 75 inside the fermenter since fermentation itself produces heat.

I only use S04 in about 60-62 ambient temperatures, and keep it cool in a water bath with frozen water bottles if needed to keep it at no higher than 64 degrees. It gets terribly fruity and sort of weird tasting if it hits 68 or more.

+1 to Yooper's comment.

Nothing wrong with using S-04 at an actual fermentation (not ambient) temp of 64*F. I just polished off a delightful glass of ESB that was fermented with S-04 at 64.5* and it has no banana or any other unpleasant flavors. I'd be happy to make another batch just like this one, although I am going to give Wyeast 1968 a whirl on my AHS Anniversary ESB batch to be brewed in about a week.

 

[Lagger]

Looking to get Zombie dust clone in the rotation & concerned about this off putting S-04 response, especially since I have no real means of temp control.

My inclination is to just go wlp002/wyeast + starter, but with a pale ale'ish with a relatively low OG, would a windsor or notty make a good substitute? Leaning towards notty, but does it throw similar flavor profiles? or any english traits for that reason. thanks

 

[BigFloyd]

Looking to get Zombie dust clone in the rotation & concerned about this off putting S-04 response, especially since I have no real means of temp control.

My inclination is to just go wlp002/wyeast + starter, but with a pale ale'ish with a relatively low OG, would a windsor or notty make a good substitute? Leaning towards notty, but does it throw similar flavor profiles? or any english traits for that reason. thanks

If you cannot keep the actual fermentation temperature below 68*F, Nottingham is a really bad choice. Quite likely worse than S-04 in warmer temps. If you let it get above 68*F (at the bucket, not the room temp), expect off-flavors. Above 70*, expect strong, funky off-flavors. Used at lower temps (upper 50's to lower 60's), I really like it.

Windsor, meh. I don't personally care for. It tends to take off fast, settle down fast, and not fully attenuate.

In a pale ale for which you want a cleaner fermentation, I'd go with US-05.

Even if it's a basic method like frozen soda pop bottles in a plastic tub with water surrounding the bottom half of your fermenter or a "swamp cooler" (wet t-shirt and fan), everyone has the means for some sort of temp control. Some are just more effective, precise and controllable than others.

 

[Lagger]

If you cannot keep the actual fermentation temperature below 68*F, Nottingham is a really bad choice. Quite likely worse than S-04 in warmer temps. If you let it get above 68*F (at the bucket, not the room temp), expect off-flavors. Above 70*, expect strong, funky off-flavors. Used at lower temps (upper 50's to lower 60's), I really like it.

Windsor, meh. I don't personally care for. It tends to take off fast, settle down fast, and not fully attenuate.

In a pale ale for which you want a cleaner fermentation, I'd go with US-05.

Even if it's a basic method like frozen soda pop bottles in a plastic tub with water surrounding the bottom half of your fermenter or a "swamp cooler" (wet t-shirt and fan), everyone has the means for some sort of temp control. Some are just more effective, precise and controllable than others.

Man, you're right. I didnt even think about that. Notty was first in line since I heard same about windsor, but kinda puts me in same boat as S-04. I can keep temps below 68 ambient no problem, but the initial start stage puts me close to 70 before it settles low 60's. I have a feeling this is not good.

Comfortable with S-05, but want to stay true to clone much as possible. Guess I have to pony up for liquid even thou its really not needed here :/ ....on the flip side I'm putting a 1/2 lb of Citra in there, so whats a few dollars not to F'it up

 

[Adaman05]

Man, you're right. I didnt even think about that. Notty was first in line since I heard same about windsor, but kinda puts me in same boat as S-04. I can keep temps below 68 ambient no problem, but the initial start stage puts me close to 70 before it settles low 60's. I have a feeling this is not good.

Comfortable with S-05, but want to stay true to clone much as possible. Guess I have to pony up for liquid even thou its really not needed here :/ ....on the flip side I'm putting a 1/2 lb of Citra in there, so whats a few dollars not to F'it up

How did your ZD turn out? My batch came out really well, even considering I fermented too high. I'm even considering entering it in a local competition. I've never entered a comp before.

 

[Snisup]

I just started drinking a MO/Northern Brewer SMaSH that I made with S-04. I fermented at 64 (carboy temp) and it produced slightly fruity esters (not banana) that went really well with the combo. It finished slightly higher as well which left a nice maltiness that really brought out the MO. I'll be using this yeast again in my next British style ale! Maybe an ESB.

 

[Lagger]

How did your ZD turn out? My batch came out really well, even considering I fermented too high. I'm even considering entering it in a local competition. I've never entered a comp before.

Nice man! Do it

Im bottling on monday, so I'll know then. However, i think it's going to be stellar. Got really good citra from farmhouse & ended up using S-04 after all. I used the wet t-shirt method w/ice in a cooler to keep temps at 64 during the peak. Had a really nice, clean and fast fermentation, so looking forward to it

 

[Adaman05]

Nice man! Do it

Im bottling on monday, so I'll know then. However, i think it's going to be stellar. Got really good citra from farmhouse & ended up using S-04 after all. I used the wet t-shirt method w/ice in a cooler to keep temps at 64 during the peak. Had a really nice, clean and fast fermentation, so looking forward to it

Nice! What was the AA on your citra? Mine from hopunion was pretty high, at 14.1.