RO water advice

[hooterjbrew]

Getting ready to do my first all grain brew 5gal batch. I'm attempting a NEIPA and I plan on do purchased RO water from my local meijer. What are the necessary additives I need to get and what are the ratios? If this question is to broad please let me know. Thanks in advance!

 

[unviewtiful]

That is an extremely broad question. Optimal water profiles are recipe dependent and vary greatly based on personal preference.

Start with the [thread=198460]Water Primer[/thread] and then go download Bru'n Water. Braufessor's [thread=568046]"Northeast" Style IPA[/thread] thread has a lot of different suggestions of water profiles for that style of beer. Pick one to start with and adjust your gypsum, CaCl, and epsom salt additions to have a finished profile matching your target. Then add acid (acidulated malt, lactic acid, or phosphoric acid) to meet your pH goal.

 

[mredge73]

It is a very broad question...
Lots on here about water treatment and I am not confident to elaborate too much on it.
I use 2 tsp or CACL and 1 tsp of GYPSUM in the mash water for almost everything that I brew.
Buy some CACL, GYPSUM, and epson salt and keep in mason jars for when you need them. You really don't need much.
Look up BrunWater and EZwatercalculator for "easy" water calculations. I still don't understand how to use them with RO water but someone will chime in soon.

 

[hooterjbrew]

I figured the question was to broad...thanks for the input though. I really just want the basic additives to get my mash ph where it should be and any other basic necessary items i should add to help make my water better. I don't think I'm quite ready to get crazy mad scientist on the water profiles yet (although I wish I was). I have read quite a few threads and I'm going to look up the EZwatercalculator and check out the water primer. Ive downloaded the Bru'nWater but I don't have an analysis for my tap water. Thanks again!

 

[Yooper]

I figured the question was to broad...thanks for the input though. I really just want the basic additives to get my mash ph where it should be and any other basic necessary items i should add to help make my water better. I don't think I'm quite ready to get crazy mad scientist on the water profiles yet (although I wish I was). I have read quite a few threads and I'm going to look up the EZwatercalculator and check out the water primer. Ive downloaded the Bru'nWater but I don't have an analysis for my tap water. Thanks again!

Use the analysis for RO water, since that is what you will be using.

Target a mash pH of 5.3 or so (pretty easy to do with RO water but you may need a wee bit of lactic acid, or maybe not), and then add some gypsum and calcium chloride. I like my sulfate at about 75 ppm and the chloride at 150 ppm for a NE IPA. That's about it.

 

[h22lude]

I'm not sure if you edited your original post but as it is right now I don't think it is a broad question. You want to know the water profile for a NEIPA.

Yooper hit it on the head. 5.3 to 5.4 pH and a 1.5:1 to 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio with chloride staying under 200ppm. I typically do something close to Yooper 150 and 75.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I would also agree with the 2:1 chloride to sulfate ratio. I would stay relatively conservative with water additions and agree with the already stated under 200ppm. Ive recently started experimenting with higher water additions (not quite like Burtons, but getting there with the hardness) and I can definitely tell a difference between a beer with high and low sulfate, or one with a higher than 2:1 ratio. For me, I feel there is a point where crispness turns into sharpness and it begins to affect flavor...

 

[mredge73]

Use the analysis for RO water, since that is what you will be using.

What is the analysis for RO water?
This is one of my hangups, I leave everything at 0 like distilled water but I know this cannot be right.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

What is the analysis for RO water?
This is one of my hangups, I leave everything at 0 like distilled water but I know this cannot be right.

The only way to know is to have it tested. If you assume zeros across the board it is more than likely going to be good enough, and I'm sure that most will be doing this. The main thing that matters is alkalinity, so you may want to take a guess at about 12 for that component. If you're software needs alkalinity reported as bicarbonate, multiply alkalinity by 61/50.

 

[h22lude]

For brewing purposes RO water is close enough to 0 that it won't matter. 1ppm or 2ppm is not going to change anything. My RO system TDS shows 4ppm.

 

[timdillon36]

This is the kit i started with when i realized it was time to treat my water.

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/gf-water-kit/beer-brewing-fining-water-chem

It comes with a cheat sheet that i used on my first couple beers using the kit. It comes with ph test strips but i also bought a ph meter.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

For brewing purposes RO water is close enough to 0 that it won't matter. 1ppm or 2ppm is not going to change anything. My RO system TDS shows 4ppm.

You are lucky. But RO waters TDS is a variable that requires a decent knowledge of the TDS of both the RO waters source, and the rejection ratio of the RO unit.

My homes RO water tests at a very high TDS of 74. In my case the source (my homes well) has a whopping TDS reading of 820. And this means that my RO unit has a rejection ratio of 11 to 1 (ballparked).

Starting with 820 TDS and ending with 74 TDS is not too bad for a lower end RO unit.

My well also has an alkalinity reading of 436 ppm (or alternately 532 ppm Bicarbonate).

Based upon 74/820 x 436 = 39.3, or alternately 436/11 = 39.6, my homes RO water alkalinity is most likely in the ballpark of 39 or 40 ppm. This level of RO water alkalinity can not be ignored. But most RO will not be as bad as mine, since the RO's source water is not likely to be as bad as mine.

 

[mredge73]

I put in a RO system in my house hooked to city water for Christmas.
I have never tested it but I do have a pool water tester, is that what you guys are using to test you water?
I don't think mine will work that well on the low end. Is TA is the only thing that really matters?

 

[h22lude]

You are lucky. But RO waters TDS is a variable that requires a decent knowledge of the TDS of both the RO waters source, and the rejection ratio of the RO unit.

My homes RO water tests at a very high TDS of 74. In my case the source (my homes well) has a whopping TDS reading of 820. And this means that my RO unit has a rejection ratio of 11 to 1 (ballparked).

Starting with 820 TDS and ending with 74 TDS is not too bad for a lower end RO unit.

My well also has an alkalinity reading of 436 ppm (or alternately 532 ppm Bicarbonate).

Based upon 74/820 x 436 = 39.3, or alternately 436/11 = 39.6, my homes RO water alkalinity is most likely in the ballpark of 39 or 40 ppm. This level of RO water alkalinity can not be ignored. But most RO will not be as bad as mine, since the RO's source water is not likely to be as bad as mine.

I don't know much about RO system themselves but exit water TDS of 74PPM sounds really bad even with that high of a starting TDS. I know people that have TDS of 800PPM and get under 10PPM exit. Was the exit that high when it was brand new? Maybe the filters aren't that great?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I don't know much about RO system themselves but exit water TDS of 74PPM sounds really bad even with that high of a starting TDS. I know people that have TDS of 800PPM and get under 10PPM exit. Was the exit that high when it was brand new? Maybe the filters aren't that great?

Right after he installed it, the installer told my wife that he measured it at TDS = 70. I just tested it at 74 a few days ago. it is not by any measure a top shelf unit, but it is removing 91%. Perhaps a really high quality unit can hit 95-96%. I doubt that they can purify at a level of 99%, but perhaps some units can do this.

 

[Yooper]

I put in a RO system in my house hooked to city water for Christmas.
I have never tested it but I do have a pool water tester, is that what you guys are using to test you water?
I don't think mine will work that well on the low end. Is TA is the only thing that really matters?

You can use one of those cheap aquarium hardness testers. Mine shows 17 ppm of alkalinity after the RO, which is certainly more than 0 but not enough to be a concern. You can use a TDS meter as well, to gauge how well it's working. The GH/KH testing kit uses drops to measure the hardness, and the carbonate hardkness. It's really really cheap, and I can make sure my RO water is still as it always has been. It can let me know when something is wrong.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I put in a RO system in my house hooked to city water for Christmas.
I have never tested it but I do have a pool water tester, is that what you guys are using to test you water?
I don't think mine will work that well on the low end. Is TA is the only thing that really matters?

In my case TA matters. For most good quality RO it will not matter nearly as much, if at all.

But, yes, for RO, the total alkalinity is pretty much all that is of concern, and only if it is present at say 10 or more ppm. Below that it doesn't shift mash pH all that much. Your pH meter is probably not precise enough to reliably detect its pH shifting effect at or below 10 ppm.

Even for my RO water with 39 ppm alkalinity, on the order of 0.8 ml of 88% lactic acid (or alternately, 8.5 ml of 10% phosphoric) will knock it out of 5 gallons of water. 5 gallons of 10 ppm alkalinity would need only about 0.2 ml of 88% lactic acid to take care of it. Hardly worth the effort.