RIMS tube setup

[SudsyPaul]

I'm getting ready to put together a RIMS tube setup, but am having a world of trouble finding a part that I want.

I'll be getting the following part:

RIMS Tube: http://brewhardware.com/rimsherms-parts/169-newrims
Element: http://www.drillspot.com/products/8...537_Electric_Replacement_Water_Heater_Element
Thermocouple: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_3&products_id=108
PID: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007H5GQUY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Add in a power outlet, some switches and a project box and BLAMO, we have a RIMS tube.

My main concern with the RIMS tube setup is that's it can be dangerous if you're not paying attention and allow the element to heat the wort while nothing is flowing out. In order to prevent such a stupid mistake from happening, I want a flow-meter on the outbound hose that will shut off the element if the hose gets jammed or the pump dies. I'm already planning on having the element wired to the pump switch, so that it can't be on without the pump being on, but if the pump fails, then I'd like to have another fall-back.

I'm essentially looking for this: http://gpimeters.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=27_54&products_id=23 but WAY less expensive, and less fancy. I don't care about the actual amount of flow, just want to know that there IS flow. I don't want to have to stand around the mash for 1 hour, so I want some assurance that when the flow stops, the element will, too.

I've been googling "flowmeter", but maybe there's a better term? Flowmeters measure the actual flow of liquid, where I just want to know that there IS flow, not exactly what the flow is.

 

[Jon73]

For what it's worth, I have brewed around 15-20 batches with my rims setup, using a March pump, I've never had a failure. My MLT is a converted keg that drains through a false bottom into a 1/2 coupler welded in the bottom for zero deadspace. I have had some stuck mashes at the beginning, but once I've cleared them, it runs for the full hour with no issues.

I know that doesn't solve what you want to do. Another idea might be to call Auber and see if one of their PID controllers can be used to cut off the power to the element if your liquid temp exceeds a certain degree.

 

[Jon73]

Or if the temp gets too low. Theory being that the pump failed, so the temp sensor would/should cool off with no heated wort flowing past it, depending on the placement of your sensor.

 

[SudsyPaul]

Jon, I think you might have a point... the element should cut out when the temp hits whatever I plugged in. So now the only issue would be something getting clogged, but my pump couldn't generate enough pressure to turn the rims tube into a bomb

 

[Jon73]

If you're using a march pump, and my understanding of how they work is correct, the pump is magnetically driven. So even if there is a clog upstream, the pump would still spin, but the impeller would not, so there would be no pressure build-up. Hope that makes sense. Good luck with your RIMS. My efficiency is terrible on my setup (62%). Think about a grant if you haven't built your stand yet. From what I've been told, it will help. I had already built my setup by the time I'd heard of one and have no room to expand without building a new stand.

A grant is a collection vessel that the mash drains into and the pump pulls from the grant instead of directly from the false bottom, it allows the wort to drain at a natural speed, rather than be sucked down by the pump, preventing grain bed compaction and stuck mashes and allowing the water to maintain longer contact with the grain.

Again, good luck.

 

[bullywee]

I have built and brewed on 2 different RIMS systems in the last 5 years. Here are some observations.

first system was
Blichmann Boilermakers
Blichmann False Bottom
March Pump
Brewers Hardware tube
1.5qt/lb


only issues that I had with flow were, with my initial return manifold (1/2 tube hugging the side of MT) it didnt return the wort evenly enough and would compact the grain bed, but never restricted flow bad enough to cause a runaway element (excellent false bottom). Better return manifold worked, great and I got 90% efficency. After a few brews I was so confident in the system that Id leave and go eat lunch during the mash come back and mashout.


current system

Keggle
Jaybird false bottom/level 1 filter stand (just upgraded)
March pump
DIY tube

Ive brewed twice, first brew was with a 10" false bottom and a simple return hose and after a short period I was getting no flow - inturn the element took off rapidly and tripped my GFCI. I constantly had to stir and scrape grain off the FB. So I upgraded for more surface area to the Jaybird 15" and it works much better, i just need to build an improved manifold and ill be golden.

I think as long as you have a good false bottom, return and dont run the pump full open you will be fine and might not need the flow meter. But you will know your system and how it works and what it needs. GOod luck

 

[myxologyst66]

To address your pressure concerns, make sure u have ur butterfly valve on the out-side of the pump, before the rims tube. This will ensure an open system after the element and no chance of making ur first accidental pipe bomb.

 

[pentiumone133]

I too have been toying with the idea of adding some kind of flow meter to my RIMS setup, so I could feel more comfortable leaving it unattended to pick up lunch or whatever on brew day.

My thought process is this. At first I would have agreed with you that I don't need to see a specific number in terms of flow, and I'd only be interested in making sure there is ANY flow at all however this thought process is flawed because it doesn't take into account the fact that if you run wort past that element too slowly, it will scorch. For the ultimate in protection I think it would be necessary to have specific numbers. These numbers would of course need to be calibrated and a system like this would be a lot of work to design and build because of that aspect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Water-flow-...858?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec72fe6ba

There are some cheap plastic flow meters on ebay from hong kong that are sold as supposedly parts for water heaters. They can handle up to 80*c which should be plenty for a mash. The maximum output of a march pump is 7 GPM and the flow meter can handle up to just under 8 GPM. Its my understanding that these just accept a DC current and spit out a signal similar to a fan in a computer. The arduino code would use this feedback from the sensor along with some math to determine the flow through the sensor. If it is within an acceptable range, the arduino-controlled relay would remain closed. That brings up another point and that is you are dealing with a lot of current from your element, so it wouldn't be smart unless you had the proper high amperage relays, to actually switch the element itself on and off. What would be smarter and cheaper is to either shut off the entire PID or put a cheaper low current relay between the PID and the SSR on the signal wire. I would vote for turning off the PID completely so that way if the system does end up tripping the PID doesnt continue to run and trying to fire the element thus screwing up the calibration and training on the PID.

If you really wanted to give it a shot with just a flow switch, you could try this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnetic-St...186?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257b95e5b2

Just brainstorming along with you. What are your thoughts?

 

[Namako]

I, too, was worried about my pump cavitating or forgetting to open the return valve in the MT, losing flow, and yet the heating element being unaware that there was a problem, thereby boiling my wort in the RIMS.

I went with a NIB adjustable (0.5 to 20 GPM flow), 1/2" FPT, 316 stainless steel GEMS SPDT Flow Switch (Model FS-10798) that I pulled off of eBay. There are several stainless steel models that will work just fine (part numbers 25358, 25360, 25364, 25366), so just wait for one to come available. You can also use the brass models (25357, 25359, 25363, 25365, 49073, 61205), but I prefer stainless if my low-pH wort is touching it.

These switches are rated at over 300 degrees F (e.g., above boiling) and 500 psi (far higher than anything a March pump can produce). New, they sell at retail for about $650 each, but I got mine on eBay for less than $65 (yeah, 10% of the MSRP), including shipping! There is a "New Old Stock" one on eBay right now for $40 (plus $5.80 for expedited shipping). There's another used one at the same price as well http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gems-flow-s...520?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4175372920.

I have mine set at 0.5 GPM (factory default), and s wired into the 12 VDC signal I have going from the 12 VDC relay board to the Solid State Relay, which then drives a 2000W/120VAC heater element in the RIMS. These flow switches can only handle 20VA, so you can't put wire them into the 120/240V load side of the SSR.

 

[kydan47]

I had a meltdown early on when my RIMS pump was unable to pump liquid thru with the air trapped in the chamber.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hedland-EZ-...465?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ba77d1a9

 

[kydan47]

Sorry, hit the send accidentally too soon. Found the link and rated for 250. My pump pushes 2 gallons a minute and up 5'.


Sorry for error.

Dan F.
LAGERS/FOSSILS