RIMS-Sparge heat on 30A service?

[JayMac]

Hey guys,

When I'm bored, I like to make the plans for my next upgrade. It's a great way to spend money even faster! I currently have a 120V, 2000W ULWD heater element in a RIMS tube that I have been using in combination with a propane burner for my HLT and BK. However, I hate using propane... and Canada is damn cold in the winter, so electric has always been in the back of my mind. Here is my question:

Is there any viable way to have an all electric RIMS setup that doesn't put me over the 30A mark?

RIMS pulls 2000W/120V=16.67A + March pump~1.4A = about 18A

Now, even a 3500W, 240V element (14.6A) puts me well over the 80% rule for 30A service. Are my only options going with a 50A spa panel, or switch to HERMS? Problem is I will be leasing a house/apartment for the next 5 years, and I'm not sure I can get a 50A breaker installed without the landlord flipping out! Any help is welcomed!

Thanks,
Jay

 

[P-J]

Use a 2000W 240V rated element in your RIMS.

Problem solved.

P-J

 

[JayMac]

Use a 2000W 240V rated element in your RIMS.

Problem solved.

P-J

I was hoping to avoid taking out that element because it is siliconed in addition to the silicone gasket used in the weldless connection. But it does seem like the only way possible. Ughh silicone is messy.

I could meet the 80% mark by using the 2000W/240V RIMS, 3500W/240V HLT element, and then my BK can pretty much be whatever I want (even 5500W/240V with pump just hits the 80%/24A mark).

I currently brew 5 gallon batches, but I'm sure at some point I will be upgrading to 10 gallons. An online calculator is telling me that the 3500W element can bring 7 gallons from 65-170F in under 30 mins. It doesn't account for heat loss, but I would assume around 40-45 mins using these LWD fold back 3500W elements: (http://bostonheatingsupply.com/search.aspx?find=240V/3500W). Is this a common wattage for people to use in the HLT? Because I tend to see the 4500W/5500W ripple elements, and that certainly seems overkill.

In terms of the BK, I've heard people can reach a vigorous boil using 75% duty with a 4500W element on a 10g batch (13gallon pre-boil). I was looking at the fold back elements instead of the ripple elements some of which are MWD and LWD (http://bostonheatingsupply.com/search.aspx?find=240V/4500W). Would these be acceptable? Or will the scorch the wort excessively?

Thanks for the help!

 

[augiedoggy]

I have a 30a 240v service to my panel... I have two 4500w heating elements for the BK and HLT and for my rims I use a "1000w" 240v cartridge element which is really closer to 750w since it draws 3.1 amps.... one of my 4500w elements draw 18.1amps max and the other 18.6 I have the two 4500w elements on a three way selector switch / relay setup so only one or the other can be on at a time but the rims can be on at the same time as either... The most I have ever seen my amp meter hit with pumps and two elements running is 23 amps.... and rarely is that a sustained load for more than a few minutes...

The 80% rule is for a sustained load for over 3 hours meaning a device that draws this full amount of amps for OVER 3 HOURS! why does everyone see this so differently? it doesnt apply to these control panels where the elements are at 100% for a max of 30 minutes in most cases...

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I recently installed a 30a 220v 4 wire GFCI to power my 4500w eBIAB controller and have no issues whatsoever doing 10 gallon batches. In fact the EBC-SV controller can handle up to 5500w elements in much larger vessels too. During a typical boil I dial down the the controller's output to the element about half way and still get a vigorous boil.

 

[augiedoggy]

I recently installed a 30a 220v 4 wire GFCI to power my 4500w eBIAB controller and have no issues whatsoever doing 10 gallon batches. In fact the EBC-SV controller can handle up to 5500w elements in much larger vessels too. During a typical boil I dial down the the controller's output to the element about half way and still get a vigorous boil.

Yes a 4500w element only requires about 19 amps and a 5500w element usually 23 amps max.... I dont think anyone is arguing that they require the full 30 amps... the OP wants to run both this and a second element at the same time (rims) I Suggest looking at a long stainless "cartridge heater" I bought mine for $9 shipped.... they draw under 5 amps.

 

[JayMac]

Yes, I am not concerned about running a 5500W element by itself, my concern has shifted more toward running my HLT element and RIMS at the same time, and what size the BK element should be (and also if MWD is acceptable for a boil). See below for what I would like to be confirmed/discussed.

HLT
-240V/3500W for heating 7-9 gal to 170F for mash/sparge in the HLT is reasonable, correct?
-the watt density is not quite an issue in the HLT, because there are no sugars to be scorches (although more calcium buildup might occur)
-240v/3500w=14.6, Pump=1.4A, 240V/2000W=8.3A TOTAL: 24.3A... Safe!
-Jumping up to a 4500W HLT puts me above 28A during mash and sparge heat, so I think the above is my only option

BK
-240V/4500W seems to be enough to heat 13gal to boil, and can easily sustain the boil. Why go to 5500W? That just seems like it could scorch 5gal batches easier
-Are MWD elements safe for the boil? Or is LWD kind of the acceptable minimum?

Thanks all for your input!

 

[augiedoggy]

not sure what MWD is? medium? I know of low watt density and ultra low watt density... I use ULWD fow bk and LWD for the hlt... my rims is only 750-800w but even if it was 1000w the wort is always flowing over it so I have no worries of scorching.

 

[JayMac]

not sure what MWD is? medium? I know of low watt density and ultra low watt density... I use ULWD fow bk and LWD for the hlt... my rims is only 750-800w but even if it was 1000w the wort is always flowing over it so I have no worries of scorching.

You are correct, it's medium watt density. There are specific numbers that determine the designation for each element (less than 50W/sqin is ULWD etc...). My RIMS is LWD, and im sure having a MWD element for the HLT won't matter (can't scorch sugars). My only real concern is during the boil where sugars might caramelize or burn on the element!

 

[augiedoggy]

You are correct, it's medium watt density. There are specific numbers that determine the designation for each element (less than 50W/sqin is ULWD etc...). My RIMS is LWD, and im sure having a MWD element for the HLT won't matter (can't scorch sugars). My only real concern is during the boil where sugars might caramelize or burn on the element!

I know some use regular lwd elements for the boil and say they have no scorching but I figured better safe than sorry.