Rescuing my brew

[deviousalex]

So I tried to make an IPA. The boil and everything went fine and now I have transferred it into secondary fermentation. The gravity was at 1.018 (a little high) during the transfers. I tasted it and the problem I have with it is that it's too light on the body for the amount of hops in there. So it tastes really hoppy, not very malty. Is there anything I can do to add more body at this stage?
I was thinking of malting some grains in a small pot and then adding some more DME (no hops) then removing some of that beer (the 5 gallon carboy is full but I also have a 6.5 gallon) and adding in this 'mini brew'. What do you guys think?

 

[Yooper]

Remember that carbonation and conditioning will change the character of this beer tremendously.

What was the recipe? If the recipe is lacking, maybe something can be added; but if the recipe is pretty solid, I bet the flavor and body will come.

 

[Sigafoos]

Also, hops tend to fade with age, so if you give it a little time it might seem to become more balanced. If it's too low bodied, though (as opposed to BU:GU), you may be stuck.

 

[XXguy]

I think you're messing with beer before it's finished.

If there's one thing to learn - it's trust the recipe & trust the process. If you want to adjust it the next time, wait until you finally taste the finished product.

Beer will change as it goes through fermentation & conditioning. Let it finish in peace.

 

[kjjohns5]

Let it be, my friend. The body will work itself out over time.

If you're really worried though, there is one thing that I can possibly think of to add more of a malty taste. Instead of priming with sugar or dextrose, prime with some DME? I realize it's only a little bit of extract but it's a way to add some extra malt.

 

[deviousalex]

Could I just use grains instead of DME for the carbonation to add more flavor? I'd have to be very careful not to bottle bomb something though.

 

[Yooper]

Could I just use grains instead of DME for the carbonation to add more flavor? I'd have to be very careful not to bottle bomb something though.

No. You add DME or sugar for carbonation, not for flavor. Adding grains wouldn't give you the fermentable sugar for carbonation.

 

[XXguy]

I bet the flavor and body will come

Let it be, my friend. The body will work itself out over time

...give it a little time it might seem to become more balanced

Remember that carbonation and conditioning will change the character of this beer tremendously

You could just let it finish.

 

[deviousalex]

If I let it finish then I don't like it, I'll have made 55 bottles of beer I don't want to drink. That's why I'm trying to avoid.

 

[XXguy]

The reason everyone keeps saying let it finish is because we've been there. We've tasted beer that didn't seem to be "right" at some point in it's life.

If you jack the beer around now - adjusting for a percieved "flaw" - you're changing the recipe. You might have more of a chance of messing up 55 bottles.

If you list the exact recipe - someone can probably tell you if there's a flaw in the recipe.

I know you want to make good beer - we all do. We're just trying to help.

 

[IceFisherChris]

I don't really want to condone messing with your beer right now, because it's really hard to know what your beer is like until... well, until it's actually done. Sorry that you're getting another one of these responses, but it's really for the best...
Trying your beer out of the fermentor is fun, but it really isn't going to taste as good as a conditioned, carbonated, and cold bottle of the final product.

 

[deviousalex]

No. You add DME or sugar for carbonation, not for flavor. Adding grains wouldn't give you the fermentable sugar for carbonation.

Doesn't malting the grains extract the fermentable sugar from them?

 

[Shepherd5]

Hi, although I am a newbie brewer, I can substantiate what others have said. Comparing the taste of beer out of the fermenter is dramatically different from the taste after conditioning and kegging/carbonating. I understand your reluctance to bottle, but have faith, t will taste fine after some time. I have also noticed how the hoppiness seems to mellow with time.

 

[Pick]

I am drinking an ale right now that I felt was wayyyyy to weak when I kegged it. Had a 1.035 OG. Now, at 2 weeks in the keg, I find myself sampling this brew way to often. When it hits it's prime it will be gone!

 

[Yooper]

Doesn't malting the grains extract the fermentable sugar from them?

Well, you could mash some basemalt, and then boil it down. But that would really be a difficult and time consuming way to make priming sugar/ DME. If you're not an all-grain brewer, that would be one heck of a way to start! You'd have to make a super thick syrup and not burn the wort or excessively carmelize it. I don't even know of any all-grain brewers who do that, except for a few who do krausening at bottling.

Maybe you just don't like IPAs? They don't tend to have much malt flavor, as the emphasis is on the hops, especially in American IPAs. Without a recipe to look at, though, all of our input would just be guesses.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

If you send it to me I will gladly dispose of it.

 

[gmtech825]

potentially making 55 bottles of beer that you might not love is part of the risk of homebrewing. there is really no way around it.

 

[l1ranger]

two things

1 - post your recipe, let these experience people tell you what they think.

2 - don't mess with it. it'll be just fine when its done fermenting and bottle conditioned. priming with DME will give it a little more body if you want to go that route, but don't go messing with it. it WILL come out right in the end

 

[Quan]

Could I just use grains instead of DME for the carbonation to add more flavor? I'd have to be very careful not to bottle bomb something though.

Doesn't malting the grains extract the fermentable sugar from them?

From what you're saying, it sounds like you want to throw some crushed grains into your beer right before you bottle. This will NOT get you any fermentable sugars.

Throwing grains into beer is NOT the same as mashing and extracting sugars from your crushed grains. That requires precise heating over an extended period of time.

You could potentially do a mini-mash process to extract sugars from some grains and then somehow dissolve it into your beer before bottling but that sounds like an awful lot of work.

By the way, "malting the grains" is a process that happens far before you even get the grains.... unless you're growing your own, I doubt you are doing it.

Here is a link that outlines malted grains:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12.html

As for what you could do... I know you don't want to hear it, but I would just wait. As for the adding DME/LME/or Mini-mash wort of your own, I really don't have any idea if it would really even work. Sounds like it might be feasible.

 

[deviousalex]

Yeast starter -
1/2 lb Light DME boiled into 1.5 L water
1 vile White Labs Dry English Ale Yeast (WLP007)
Fermented for two days

Malts -
1.5 lb Rahr 2-row
1.5 lb British Pale
1 lb Crystal 40
7 lb Liight DME

1 tbsp Burton Water Salts
Malts Steeped for 45 minutes up to 170 F

7 lb Light DME @ 75 minutes
2 oz Centennial @ 75 minutes
2 oz Cascade @ 75 minutes
2 oz Armarillo @ 15 minutes
1 tsp Irish Moss @ 15 minutes
1 tsp Fermaid K @ 15 minutes
5 drops foam control before pitching
1/2 oz Kent Goldings for dry-hopping between fermentations

Original Gravity - 1.060
Original Yield - 6 gallons
Fermentation temperature - between 64-73 F


As for the malting I made a mistake, I thought that was the process of extracting the sugars from the grains. I never wanted to just toss grains in there (that obviously won't carbonate it). I wanted to do a mini-mash and use that to carbonate it.

 

[GNBrews]

Devious,

If you do decide to mess with your beer, I'd suggest splitting the batch into two. Play with half of the batch and leave the other as the control.

To get more body in that beer, do a mini-mash @ 155F with .75lb Carapils and add it to half of the batch. Try to collect ~2qts of runnings to approximate the amount of sugar you'd get from the usual priming. The Cara will add a nice amount of body, while adding just a bit of flavor. An insulated coffee carafe makes a great mash tun for small batches.

Edit: Excuse me, Carapils, not Caramunich. Caramunich would be a bit more bold, but you'll alter the color too strongly.

 

[XXguy]

Devious - posting the recipe helps a bunch.

4 oz of hops for 75 minutes might make some bitter beer - but I'm curious to know your brew pot size. I'm assuming you used extract because you can't do a full boil yet.

A small sized boil will reduce your hop utilization & would dramatically change the bitterness ratio compared to using 4 oz. for a full boil of all 6 gallons for 75 minutes.

My calculations in Beersmith give me an expected OG of 1.069. Was your OG reading posted the actual hydrometer reading at pitch temp?

 

[deviousalex]

The boil size was initially about 4.5 gallons (my estimate). But a lot boiled off during the boil and at the end I probably had about 3-3.5 gallons. The OG @ 74F was 1.060 read using a hydrometer. I think adjusted to 60F that's about 1.062. I accidentally overfilled my carboy more than I wanted to, hence the 6 gallons and an OG lower than what I was targeting (I wanted to do ~1.07). I was targeting 5.5 gallons. And yes, this was an extract brew.

 

[Yooper]

The boil size was initially about 4.5 gallons (my estimate). But a lot boiled off during the boil and at the end I probably had about 3-3.5 gallons. The OG @ 74F was 1.060 read using a hydrometer. I think adjusted to 60F that's about 1.062. I accidentally overfilled my carboy more than I wanted to, hence the 6 gallons and an OG lower than what I was targeting (I wanted to do ~1.07). I was targeting 5.5 gallons. And yes, this was an extract brew.

The recipe is pretty solid. If it's still too "thin", you could try adding some maltodextrine (it's a powder, sold at homebrew stores) at bottling.

I wouldn't though. The carbonation will definitely change the mouthfeel, and with the pound of crystal you have in there, I think it'll turn out to have enough body in the end.

 

[deviousalex]

I think I'm going to go with bottling using DME. For a 5 gal quantity (what I have in my secondary) how much DME should I use? I've only used corn sugar before. Also, would Amber DME be a bad idea?

 

[XXguy]

If you're bound & determined to mess with it anyway, why not try GNBrew's suggestion? Jack around 1/2 of it - and then let 1/2 of it go with the original ? I think you'd learn a lot.

Beersmith estimates an IBU of 76 with a bitterness ratio of 1.111 IBU/SG. That shows on the bitter side, but a few ounces of DME isn't going to change that.

Take a look at Yooper's suggestion. Maltodextrin will add some unfermentables & some body to the beer. Amber DME will just change the color a little bit. You can find some carbonation charts here : http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html You need to use more DME than if you used Corn Sugar. They give a recommendation on that link - but I think the ratio is something like 1.7 times the suggested amount if you use DME.

If you want - you can get a free trial of Beersmith @ www.beersmith.com they give you a free trial for 21 days before you have to decide if you want to buy it.

 

[deviousalex]

I decided to just bottle it with a 1/4lb of Light DME. The beer came out alright, the body aged a little bit and got better and the hops calmed down. Not perfect, but acceptable.

 

[badhabit]

Ive been tasting unfinished beer and grain for a long time and I believe that I have gotten better at predicting outcome BUT I still get surprised with some regularity. Sometimes it is a nice surprise some times not so nice. Sometimes 90 days of conditioning makes a world of difference as well. Give it time to work. The worst that could happen is that you will know for sure that you need to tweek the reciope to develope a taste that you will enjoy more.

 

[deviousalex]

One thing I have noticed is that there is a lot more yeast sediment in the bottom of these beers. Could this be due to carbonating with DME? When I racked it into bottles I made sure to avoid the sediment at the bottom.