just brewed my first ever all grain and it is a Kama Citra IPA using centennial, cascade, and citra hops. I have an ounce of cascade and an ounce of citra left for dry hopping. The recipe says to dry hop in the secondary after 2 weeks in the primary. My question is can I put an ounce of cascade in the primary after 2 weeks and let it sit for another week before transferring to secondary? and then dry hopping with that ounce of citra for a week in secondary? My goal is to create layers of hop flavor. What are your thoughts about doing this and/ or do you recommend a different route? What techniques work bestfor you. I have pellet hops.
recipe diagnoses...feedback?
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singybrue
Well-Known Member
The NB instructions are outdated.
You don't need to transfer to secondary. More negatives than positives, especially if you have the ability to cold crash.
As far as a 2 part dry hop, go for it! Plenty of top tier commercial brews do this.
I would shorten the dry hop times, though. 10 days is too long, IMO. Another area where I think most kits are wrong, especially for hoppy beers.
I'd do 3-4 days for the 1st dry hop, then another 3-4 days for the second.
You don't need to transfer to secondary. More negatives than positives, especially if you have the ability to cold crash.
As far as a 2 part dry hop, go for it! Plenty of top tier commercial brews do this.
I would shorten the dry hop times, though. 10 days is too long, IMO. Another area where I think most kits are wrong, especially for hoppy beers.
I'd do 3-4 days for the 1st dry hop, then another 3-4 days for the second.
singybrue
Well-Known Member
Also, post back later what you think of the recipe.
I was just looking at this yesterday as a possible future brew.
I was just looking at this yesterday as a possible future brew.
The aroma is crazy good. Fun recipe to brew too. I changed up the hop schedule a bit. Instead of 2 oz of citra at flameout, I waited for the wort to cool down to 150F and did a hop stand for 10 minutes with the citra. The aroma is amazing. Its a new recipe from NB. Haven't heard much reviews about it yet.
That sounds good! I have a ton of homegrown cascades and centennial to use up, and a friend gave me a pound of citra. I think I see a "Three Cs" type of beer coming. Make sure you let us know how it comes out in the end!
About dryhopping- while you can certainly dryhop any time you'd like, generally you get the most out of it if you package immediately after dryhopping. In other words, dryhop last.
If you're going to transfer, age, add finings, etc, I'd do that all first and dryhop for the last 3-7 days right before bottling. Hops aromas are the very first thing to fade, so dryhopping and then aging the beer a week or two before bottling gives a bit of time for the aroma to already start dissipating.
About dryhopping- while you can certainly dryhop any time you'd like, generally you get the most out of it if you package immediately after dryhopping. In other words, dryhop last.
If you're going to transfer, age, add finings, etc, I'd do that all first and dryhop for the last 3-7 days right before bottling. Hops aromas are the very first thing to fade, so dryhopping and then aging the beer a week or two before bottling gives a bit of time for the aroma to already start dissipating.
Will do! You should definitely brew this recipe. Especially if you have home grown hops! I posted tge recipe under recipe/ingredients tab. The color is nice too. Almost an orange hew to it.
As for the dry hopping i wanted to let the beer do its thing for 2 weeks. Dry hop ounce of csscade for 1 more week in primary. Rack to secondary for one week on ounce of citra. 4 weeks total. Bottle/condition for 2 weeks. Citra punch should hit you in tge face for aroma.
Since it's only 2 ounces total, why not dryhop them at the same time, for the last 5-7 days right before bottling? That would maintain maximum flavor/aroma.
Layers of flavor. It will still be super hoppy. I'll test it out and let you knw
"Layers of flavor"? I don't understand that. If the cascade is first and will fade first how that would provide a depth. Or do you mean something else?
Cascade won't fade completely. You think it will?
Hop them at the same time. Doing one before the other won't effect what you call layers, or depth or whatever. Thu only thing I see happening from leaving one in longer is that whichever went in first might leave grassy flavor from being in too long, and the aroma you would have gotten from that one will have started to go away.
No, not completely. But I'd do both at the same time, since it's a pretty small amount.
I guess I'm thinking that if the hops oils aren't saturated in the wort, there would be no advantage to separate dryhopping. I could very well be wrong, of course!
maybe my idea just sounded good in theory. All I wanted was more of a citra hop profile. Let the cascades take the backseat and anchor that citra flavor. I'll do some more research about it
If you want more citra, I'd use more citra and less cascade in the dryhopping. I do that with several beers- especially my simcoe/amarillo IPA. I use twice as much amarillo as simcoe in the dryhopping for less "cat pee" and more "grapefruit".
Ok, maybe not a great example with the cat pee- but you get the idea! :cross:
Texconsinite
Well-Known Member
Why is it that dry-hopping is always done with high alpha bittering hops? Wouldn't the aromatic qualities of high beta hops like hersbrucker come through well in dry-hopping, since they don't get boiled off. Is there some reason why nobody dry hops with finishing hops?
I honestly don't know what would happen, but I'm wondering if there's something I am missing here. I thought beta acids get boiled out while the alpha acids don't, so why not do this?
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I honestly don't know what would happen, but I'm wondering if there's something I am missing here. I thought beta acids get boiled out while the alpha acids don't, so why not do this?
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Any hop variety can be a "finishing" hop. I don't use noble hops in US pale ales or IPAs because they are so nice and subtle- perfect for German lagers but not for huge citrusy IPAs. However, I will use Czech saaz for Bohemian pilsner, or crystal hops in a classic American pilsner if they need a bit more hops "nose".
Many US multi-use hops do have higher AAUs than some continental hops, but not always.
Dryhopping is more about aroma than any type of beta/alpha acids. Some high AAU hops (like warrior) don't have great aromatic qualities, but some (like simcoe) do.
GCPHomebrew
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I DO transfer to secondary. But I have a CO2 setup to prevent oxidation. My disadvatange(yes there are disadvantages to secondarying) is that it's one more Carboy to wash. I dry hop in the primary, cold crash, and dry hop in the secondary at room temp then cold crash again. Keg it. I seem to get more perceived bitterness from the primary.
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Can I cold crash in my glass primary carboy? I don't have a co2 setup for a secondary but should I take the risk to transfer it? I've done it once before and had good luck
GCPHomebrew
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I cold crash my primary(glass Carboy) just remember to remove the airlock. You can double dry hop this way also. Once in the primary, cold crash, in the secondary, cold crash(or not on the second one)
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If you want an interesting grainbill, but not with any strong flavors to interfere with the hops, something like this would be great:
90% US two-row
5 % carapils
5% Vienna malt (or some toasted malt)\
I wouldn't bother with four different types of grains, and some of my best IPAs are only US two-row and a little "something" else, like amber malt, toasted malt, crystal malt, etc- but not much. Generally two grains.
90% US two-row
5 % carapils
5% Vienna malt (or some toasted malt)\
I wouldn't bother with four different types of grains, and some of my best IPAs are only US two-row and a little "something" else, like amber malt, toasted malt, crystal malt, etc- but not much. Generally two grains.
I recently brewed an IPA just using 2ROW and Crystal... I tell ya, I wish I would have kept my Crystal malt down to a 5% instead of 15%!!! That little extra bit of Crystal killed my hops. Simplicity in a IPA is much better IMO, especially if you're wanting the hops to shine.
I like that combo. I wanted to try using pilsner because I've heard some good stories about it. Essentially 2 row and pilsner are the same, right? How much of a flavor difference is there
Well, almost all basemalts are two-row barley, so in that sense, yes, they are the same. Maris otter, German pilsner, Vienna malt, US pale malt, etc, are all two-row.
The difference is in the maltster and the kilning. Pilsner malt is delicate and grainy malt tasting. It can be very good as base for an American IPA. But mixing it in with two other base grains probably means you won't notice or benefit from any of its flavor, as it will be covered up by the sweeter Vienna malt and the bland but stronger US two-row.
I'd consider using one or two malts only in a simple grain bill, so that the hops shine. If you want to pick up malt flavor, choose one base grain maybe one more as a character malt, but three different base grains in a simple IPA won't necessarily give complex flavor. It may muddle the characteristics that you want to bring out.
There is a difference if only slight, but in an IPA I'd be hard pressed to really tell the difference. But if using say 100% Pils or 2row... you'd notice side by side. The difference would still be slight though.
what if I wanted to use Marris otter? Do I have to use the English style hops? I want to use warrior, amarillo, citra. And Simcoe.
That's the beauty of homebrewing- you don't "have to" do anything!
Maris otter has this great bready warm flavor that is awesome. It may or may not go with your hops schedule, but if you use a well attenuating American ale yeast strain and mash at about 151-152, it should turn out great!
Thanks for your help. I'm putting together my first all grain recipe. I'm 23 and have only brewed 3 batches. An extract, partial mash, and an all grain. All kits. I really want to push the limits and take the training wheels off on this one. I have beer Smith to help me out. Wish me luck!
Chuckus95
Well-Known Member
I'm to a point where I'm staying away from Crystal malts in my IPAs. When I do a lighter color IPA, I go with:
93% 2-Row
5% Victory
2% Honey Malt
93% 2-Row
5% Victory
2% Honey Malt
I just formulated my recipe to
89.7 % 2 ROW
5.2% Vienna
5.2% carapils
What is honey malt?
Chuckus95
Well-Known Member
Here is a description:
Honey Malt is a unique malt produced by the Gambrinus Malting Corporation, a small malting company in Armstrong, British Columbia, Canada. It is made using a special process that develops distinctive flavors. The unique process puts Honey malt in the same family as German ‘brumalt’, and melanoidin malt. The result is an intense malt sweetness free from roasted or astringent flavors, with a characteristic honey-like flavor and golden color. It really doesn’t compare to any other malt. It’s unique qualities and sweet maltiness make it a perfect specialty malt in many styles. It can be used for up to 10% of the grist but the flavor can become assertive at higher usage rates. 20-30°L
I agree that it is very unique, but you want to be very careful and not get too heavy-handed with it.
Chuckus95
Well-Known Member
If you want to go a little darker (around 7-9 SRM), add a bit more complexity, but still have the hops shine, I like the following grain bill:
71.4% 2-row
14.3% Vienna
3.6% Honey Malt
3.6% CaraRed
3.6% Carapils
3.6% Turbinado Sugar
What hops do you use for that combo? If you don't mind me asking
Need help with arranging an appropriate hop schedule
5 gallons
Grains:
13 lbs 2 row (89.7%)
12 Oz vienna (5.2%)
12 Oz Carapils (5.2%)
OG:1.075
MASH: 149F for 60 mins
Hops:
1 oz. Warrior 15% AAU
1 oz. Amarillo 8.4% AAU
2 oz. Simcoe 13.2% AAU
1 oz. Cascade 7.3% AAU
1 oz. Summit 14.2% AAU
3 oz. Citra 14.1% AAU
1 oz. Falconers flight 10.8% AAU
Yeast: white labs Dry English Ale WPA
Please help me figure out a well balanced IPA
5 gallons
Grains:
13 lbs 2 row (89.7%)
12 Oz vienna (5.2%)
12 Oz Carapils (5.2%)
OG:1.075
MASH: 149F for 60 mins
Hops:
1 oz. Warrior 15% AAU
1 oz. Amarillo 8.4% AAU
2 oz. Simcoe 13.2% AAU
1 oz. Cascade 7.3% AAU
1 oz. Summit 14.2% AAU
3 oz. Citra 14.1% AAU
1 oz. Falconers flight 10.8% AAU
Yeast: white labs Dry English Ale WPA
Please help me figure out a well balanced IPA
