Rate my weld job!

[Nerdie]

I don't know what's good or bad... I saw someone with A LOT of sugar on this forum before... that sucks! I know that's not good. Anyways... I was going to do it myself since my friend own's a auto shop and has a MIG but I went down the block to a metal shop (let's be honest I have only textbook knowledge from the forums). They weld stainless steel fences all the time. I told him I wanted "sanitary stainless steel weld".... he looked a bit confused but I told him... to use backgas (argon) or flux and TIG... Make it nice and pretty with nice beads... I only paid $10 for each weld :rockin: ($60 total!) I think that's cheap. Anyways, I'm not sure what's great, good, bad, and horrible. Let me know what you think and if I should go back there again.... I also brought a 2 inch diameter stainless steel pipe 36" inch long to make high proof alcohol taste better such as everclear or vodka... when I make my limoncello...



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Inside... not the best? Idk...



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I know .. I know.. don't weld on top of air vent... Well I will use that keg as my mash-tun hopefully not too much fire... maybe go electric in the future... It was only one out of 3 kegs... I just had to because I wanted it centered... and I could center the holes for 2 out of 3... my OCD would kill me in the future if I didn't do it that way for the 3rd...



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[Nerdie]

sorry for big pics.. didn't think it would do that... I have a mac so I pinch and the whole page gets smaller..

 

[Nerdie]

bump.. good or bad?

 

[buzzkill]

they look fine,as long as they dont leak. get out the dremel and sweet'n them up.

 

[mullenite]

Not bad for raw welds, as was said just clean them up a bit.

 

[GreenMonti]

Ok, I'll pay the jerk in the crowd.

In the first pic there is a pin hole where the weldor stopped. That's a possible leak. Have you tested them yet?

This is the other thing that strikes me. You told him,

"I told him I wanted "sanitary stainless steel weld".... he looked a bit confused but I told him... to use backgas (argon) or flux and TIG"

What did he/she say to this statement? Did they agree to the purge or flux? While you got a TIG weld, you didn't get any gas on the back. So as the others have said, I would clean them up. When you get in close while cleaning, your gonna rip up your scrubby or cloth on the sugar.

All in all, they will be just fine if they don't leak. I wouldn't have them weld anything used after the boil though. IMO for $10 bucks a weld, that's what you got. I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out the short comings since you asked, and no one else did.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Ok, I'll pay the jerk in the crowd.

I guess I'll be jerk #2...

I was gonna say to clean up the insides real well. There's a few gaps that I saw in a couple pictures, and that could be leak points too. Also, it'll be harder to clean if they're left as they are. Grains, wort, or whatever is in them will inevitably get into the crevices.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Ok, I'll pay the jerk in the crowd.

In the first pic there is a pin hole where the weldor stopped. That's a possible leak. Have you tested them yet?

This is the other thing that strikes me. You told him,

"I told him I wanted "sanitary stainless steel weld".... he looked a bit confused but I told him... to use backgas (argon) or flux and TIG"

What did he/she say to this statement? Did they agree to the purge or flux? While you got a TIG weld, you didn't get any gas on the back. So as the others have said, I would clean them up. When you get in close while cleaning, your gonna rip up your scrubby or cloth on the sugar.

All in all, they will be just fine if they don't leak. I wouldn't have them weld anything used after the boil though. IMO for $10 bucks a weld, that's what you got. I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out the short comings since you asked, and no one else did.

GM, I saw this thread and was hoping you'd run across it.
I'm not a weldor and don't feel qualified to rate anyone's welds.

Nerdie... I went through hell to try to find someone locally to weld my kegs, then spent great effort trying to educate myself and them on how to do it like some I've seen here (I have never seen ANY better than GreenMonti). Long story short, my welds may look marginally better than yours but not what I was really wanting. In the end, mine are working fine and with a little elbow grease yours will too.

 

[Nerdie]

thanks for the responses! The truth is all I want! Thanks "jerks" and non jerks equally. I was going to boil water for the cleaning of the kegs but maybe I'll do it now since it might have to be re-welded if there is a leak. Hopefully no leaks!

any hints with the dremel? How do you clean the bottom inside weld? Can i just use sand paper?

When I told him I wanted sanitary welds... I'm not sure if he knew what that meant but I told him to use TIG and backgas or flux... he shook his head yes... but I don't really know what i'm talking about... only about what I learn from u guys =) .. did he actually do it? who knows... lol... hence the post...

Is your screen name green monti from the coral? How much would you charge per weld? Where are u located? How can I find someone good at sanitary welding? It seems hard to find someone good at that...

 

[Ohio-Ed]

thanks for the responses! The truth is all I want! Thanks "jerks" and non jerks equally. I was going to boil water for the cleaning of the kegs but maybe I'll do it now since it might have to be re-welded if there is a leak. Hopefully no leaks!

any hints with the dremel? How do you clean the bottom inside weld? Can i just use sand paper?

When I told him I wanted sanitary welds... I'm not sure if he knew what that meant but I told him to use TIG and backgas or flux... he shook his head yes... but I don't really know what i'm talking about... only about what I learn from u guys =) .. did he actually do it? who knows... lol... hence the post...

Is your screen name green monti from the coral? How much would you charge per weld? Where are u located? How can I find someone good at sanitary welding? It seems hard to find someone good at that...

Here is a thread of my efforts to get kegs welded:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/welding-questions-148798/

To find a welder;
Don't tell him what he needs to do... tell him what you have, what you're using it for and ASK him how he would do it. You are not likely to train a welder how to make sanitary welds if he has zero experience doing it. In my case I found a very nice guy, willing to try, but in the end I was the guinea pig. I even made the purge for him to use to backgas. Not every welder has a separate gas bottle & regulator or a splitter to even be able to backgas.

Ask if they have anything "like that" they are currently working on and if you can see it.

Talk to other brewers in your area, look at their welds and ask who did them.

Cleaning up the sugar on the inside is a pain. If you grind to far, you may cause leaks. It's a pain to get to the couplings, much less the bottom, and next to impossible to see what you are doing inside the keg. Be patient, take your time, and realize they don't have to be perfect.

The keg I had before I went on my quest looked FAR worse than yours and it made fine beer.

Good luck.

Edit: I contemplated long and hard about shipping my kegs almost coast to coast and begging GreenMonti to do the welding. Shipping three kegs both ways would cost a fortune, but his work is OUTSTANDING.

 

[bendavanza]

Almost every weldor I have approached about back gassing welds gave me that same look. It's just a PITA for them as you would need another cylinder and regulator as well as tubing and some rigging to do it, so unless they have a need for that in their line of work, they probably will just weld it and move on. Even my friend who welds for race cars does not back gas and did not for my kegs, so I have the same sugar. I wish I had bought some of that solar flux paste at least. Oh well, it makes fine beer.

 

[GreenMonti]

thanks for the responses! The truth is all I want! Thanks "jerks" and non jerks equally. I was going to boil water for the cleaning of the kegs but maybe I'll do it now since it might have to be re-welded if there is a leak. Hopefully no leaks!

any hints with the dremel? How do you clean the bottom inside weld? Can i just use sand paper?

When I told him I wanted sanitary welds... I'm not sure if he knew what that meant but I told him to use TIG and backgas or flux... he shook his head yes... but I don't really know what i'm talking about... only about what I learn from u guys =) .. did he actually do it? who knows... lol... hence the post...

Is your screen name green monti from the coral? How much would you charge per weld? Where are u located? How can I find someone good at sanitary welding? It seems hard to find someone good at that...

Boiling water is a good idea. By doing so you will see how big of a rust issue your gonna have due to no gas being used. So, while your cleaning up the sugar, you can scrubby the areas of rust after you get them smooth. I would then recheck them for leaks and the boiling will speed up the rusting process. If any new rust forms. Sometimes it takes a couple of times to get the passive layer back on top. Some additional scrubbing may be needed from time to time.

I myself would use a carbide bit to get most of the problem material out of the way. You can then finish off the job and touch it up with the sanding drum. Use new sanding drums.

Yes, my screen name is based on a green montipora. I'm near seattle. Finding a good weldor is hard to do. When you do find one they are gonna be expensive. Welding SS the right way costs the shop money in consumable supplies and time. I agree that it's hard to find a good weldor. The company I work for never quits looking for a weldor. OhioEd's thread has a lot of good info in it. I joined HBT in that thread. So its Ed's fault I'm here.LOL There is most likely some pics of mine that aren't up anymore. Photo account troubles and I lost the data.

Oh.....you can use a mirror to see whats going on under the fittings. You can use one of those telescoping kind from the auto store.

 

[GreenMonti]

I went through hell to try to find someone locally to weld my kegs, then spent great effort trying to educate myself and them on how to do it like some I've seen here (I have never seen ANY better than GreenMonti).

Thank you very much for the kind words.

Prost.

 

[Nerdie]

Here is a thread of my efforts to get kegs welded:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/welding-questions-148798/

To find a welder;
Don't tell him what he needs to do... tell him what you have, what you're using it for and ASK him how he would do it. You are not likely to train a welder how to make sanitary welds if he has zero experience doing it. In my case I found a very nice guy, willing to try, but in the end I was the guinea pig. I even made the purge for him to use to backgas. Not every welder has a separate gas bottle & regulator or a splitter to even be able to backgas.

Ask if they have anything "like that" they are currently working on and if you can see it.

Talk to other brewers in your area, look at their welds and ask who did them.

Cleaning up the sugar on the inside is a pain. If you grind to far, you may cause leaks. It's a pain to get to the couplings, much less the bottom, and next to impossible to see what you are doing inside the keg. Be patient, take your time, and realize they don't have to be perfect.

The keg I had before I went on my quest looked FAR worse than yours and it made fine beer.

Good luck.

Edit: I contemplated long and hard about shipping my kegs almost coast to coast and begging GreenMonti to do the welding. Shipping three kegs both ways would cost a fortune, but his work is OUTSTANDING.

yes I read all 22 pages yesterday... cool stuff wish i read it earlier...

 

[Nerdie]

Here is a thread of my efforts to get kegs welded:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/welding-questions-148798/

To find a welder;
Don't tell him what he needs to do... tell him what you have, what you're using it for and ASK him how he would do it. You are not likely to train a welder how to make sanitary welds if he has zero experience doing it. In my case I found a very nice guy, willing to try, but in the end I was the guinea pig. I even made the purge for him to use to backgas. Not every welder has a separate gas bottle & regulator or a splitter to even be able to backgas.

Ask if they have anything "like that" they are currently working on and if you can see it.

Talk to other brewers in your area, look at their welds and ask who did them.

Cleaning up the sugar on the inside is a pain. If you grind to far, you may cause leaks. It's a pain to get to the couplings, much less the bottom, and next to impossible to see what you are doing inside the keg. Be patient, take your time, and realize they don't have to be perfect.

The keg I had before I went on my quest looked FAR worse than yours and it made fine beer.

Good luck.

Edit: I contemplated long and hard about shipping my kegs almost coast to coast and begging GreenMonti to do the welding. Shipping three kegs both ways would cost a fortune, but his work is OUTSTANDING.

Boiling water is a good idea. By doing so you will see how big of a rust issue your gonna have due to no gas being used. So, while your cleaning up the sugar, you can scrubby the areas of rust after you get them smooth. I would then recheck them for leaks and the boiling will speed up the rusting process. If any new rust forms. Sometimes it takes a couple of times to get the passive layer back on top. Some additional scrubbing may be needed from time to time.

I myself would use a carbide bit to get most of the problem material out of the way. You can then finish off the job and touch it up with the sanding drum. Use new sanding drums.

Yes, my screen name is based on a green montipora. I'm near seattle. Finding a good weldor is hard to do. When you do find one they are gonna be expensive. Welding SS the right way costs the shop money in consumable supplies and time. I agree that it's hard to find a good weldor. The company I work for never quits looking for a weldor. OhioEd's thread has a lot of good info in it. I joined HBT in that thread. So its Ed's fault I'm here.LOL There is most likely some pics of mine that aren't up anymore. Photo account troubles and I lost the data.

Oh.....you can use a mirror to see whats going on under the fittings. You can use one of those telescoping kind from the auto store.

cool i'll use that dremel like that.. thanks...
a lot of reefers on here.. i guess a lot of things in common.. =) i have a green monitpora doesn't weld though =(

 

[GreenMonti]

cool i'll use that dremel like that.. thanks...
a lot of reefers on here.. i guess a lot of things in common.. =) i have a green monitpora doesn't weld though =(

Funny, PM sent

 

[mattd2]

Almost every weldor I have approached about back gassing welds gave me that same look.

Seriously? If they are giving you that look (or the WTF are you talking about look) they should not be doing stainless work like this.

 

[GreenMonti]

Seriously? If they are giving you that look (or the WTF are you talking about look) they should not be doing stainless work like this.

Yes, but it doesn't stop the shops from taking peoples money. People put a LOT of faith in the "professional" behind the counter. Its like the aquarium hobby. Folks go in all the time un-educated, and they go home with the wrong or unnecessary stuff. That can be said for just about anything really.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Seriously? If they are giving you that look (or the WTF are you talking about look) they should not be doing stainless work like this.

Keep in mind, most of the time these weldors are not searching us out and asking for work. We are walking into their shop and then trying to convince ourselves they can do "work like this" because we explained what they need to do. They consider themselves professionals (and are in their discipline in most cases), and are not likely to take too much advice on doing their job from someone who can't do it themselves.

I called one local company that I am 100% sure could have done the job correctly, but their ballpark estimate was about 4x that of the guy I thought I could work with.

 

[mattd2]

Yes, but it doesn't stop the shops from taking peoples money. People put a LOT of faith in the "professional" behind the counter. Its like the aquarium hobby. Folks go in all the time un-educated, and they go home with the wrong or unnecessary stuff. That can be said for just about anything really.

Yeah it's sad that some people just don't care about giving the best quality, they probably realise that there is a 95% chance that this is the only work you will be getting done so they would rather get that work and do it crappy than lose the $60!
I like Ed's suggestion to combat this, go in and ask them what their process would be to weld the things and if they don't mention about back purging walk away.
Hell, whats the cost of a cheap second hand tig welder setup with gas?

 

[GreenMonti]

I called one local company that I am 100% sure could have done the job correctly, but their ballpark estimate was about 4x that of the guy I thought I could work with.

Yep. This is what I was in reference too. Its hard for a home brewer or any small guy to justify the cost. Its more easy to roll the dice on the lesser cost and hope it gets done right.

Ed, my friend. You taught that shop you dealt with. Whether they took the time to expound on what you showed them or not........? They at least listened to you, and even used your purge you made for the job. I believe they did try for you, the best they knew how.

 

[GreenMonti]

Hell, whats the cost of a cheap second hand tig welder setup with gas?

Ha,Ha. OhioEd also went that route in his quandary.

Once you get the welder, you have to teach yourself how to use it. So there is added cost there. No doubt, going that way will cost you more. However, you will have a piece of machinery and learn the basics of a new trick to put in your bag. That's pretty cool IMO. If your check book can handle it that is. Once you get pretty good, work does find you some how???

Cheers.

 

[mattd2]

Keep in mind, most of the time these weldors are not searching us out and asking for work. We are walking into their shop and then trying to convince ourselves they can do "work like this" because we explained what they need to do. They consider themselves professionals (and are in their discipline in most cases), and are not likely to take too much advice on doing their job from someone who can't do it themselves.

I called one local company that I am 100% sure could have done the job correctly, but their ballpark estimate was about 4x that of the guy I thought I could work with.

Yeah I know, the 4x price was probably because he knew what he was doing and what it would cost to do it (plus make some cash to support his family ofcoarse). How much was his estimate, per coupling?
I am so bad at things like this, if I could do it myself (with a little practise beforehand) and the cost to pay someone to do it is about the same to buy the equipment(or even twice) then I buy the equipment. That way I can do it the way I want it and I have the gear so next time I want something it is going to cost $0 (or close enough) and I have an excuss for SWMBO to get new toys.
Fixed a broken strut mount on my car last year for less than a mechanic would and I ended up with a floor jack, 2x axle stands, coil spring compressors and a couple of large sockets. Well worth it for 4 hours work. Next time I will be getting that air compressor and rattle gun, then the job will be down to 1 hour!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Yep. This is what I was in reference too. Its hard for a home brewer or any small guy to justify the cost. Its more easy to roll the dice on the lesser cost and hope it gets done right.

Ed, my friend. You taught that shop you dealt with. Whether they took the time to expound on what you showed them or not........? They at least listened to you, and even used your purge you made for the job. I believe they did try for you, the best they knew how.

Yea, I mentioned the 4x in support of your post...

The guy was really nice and I truly believe he tried to do the best he could.
I would have walked away (and did from several other shops), had this guy not seemed like he really wanted to do it right.

Ha,Ha. OhioEd also went that route in his quandary.

Once you get the welder, you have to teach yourself how to use it. So there is added cost there. No doubt, going that way will cost you more. However, you will have a piece of machinery and learn the basics of a new trick to put in your bag. That's pretty cool IMO. If your check book can handle it that is. Once you get pretty good, work does find you some how???

Cheers.

Yep... I'd still like to get a welder and would jump at the chance if I knew how to find and evaluate one. Not sure how to even know if a welder is working ok if you don't know how to use it... so it's a dilemma.

I've also considered just moving somewhere closer to GreenMonti because even with the equipment I know it will take years of experience to get close to his results.

Yeah I know, the 4x price was probably because he knew what he was doing and what it would cost to do it (plus make some cash to support his family ofcoarse). How much was his estimate, per coupling?
I am so bad at things like this, if I could do it myself (with a little practise beforehand) and the cost to pay someone to do it is about the same to buy the equipment(or even twice) then I buy the equipment. That way I can do it the way I want it and I have the gear so next time I want something it is going to cost $0 (or close enough) and I have an excuss for SWMBO to get new toys.
Fixed a broken strut mount on my car last year for less than a mechanic would and I ended up with a floor jack, 2x axle stands, coil spring compressors and a couple of large sockets. Well worth it for 4 hours work. Next time I will be getting that air compressor and rattle gun, then the job will be down to 1 hour!

The top ballpark was $300 for 16 couplings if I drilled the holes and sized the couplings and $600 if he made the holes. Either way, I provide the couplings.

The gear to do this is likely going to cost you $1500 - $2000+ unless you run across a real bargain. Then if you try to buy used, you probably won't know what to look for to even evaluate it. Trust me, I am a tool junkie, if the right opportunity comes along I will be all over it.

 

[Swagman]

Guess maybe I should raise my prices I charge 12.00 a coupling. I furnish the coupling turn down half length on the lathe to 1 inch drill the 1 inch hole and tig weld with back flow.
I moved up from a high freq box to 180 SD Miller several years ago by filling a full house against a flush.

God Bless
Dominus Vobiscum
Swagman

 

[mattd2]

So basically the answer is to play more poker...... and win!

 

[Ohio-Ed]

So basically the answer is to play more poker...... and win!

Yep.
But you can hedge your bet... My plan was to find someone I thought could do the job then let them weld a coupling in as a test... Worse case, you risk a keg, a coupling and it might cost you a few extra bucks to have him setup for a single coupling. If the test goes well, let him do the rest of the job.

Like I said, that was the plan... the guy I used knew the first one he did wasn't right but said he learned from it and was going to change his method and asked to try another coupling.

His work improved and I ended up sticking with the guy even though the welds aren't what I would have REALLY liked. I could have walked away.

 

[GreenMonti]

Guess maybe I should raise my prices I charge 12.00 a coupling. I furnish the coupling turn down half length on the lathe to 1 inch drill the 1 inch hole and tig weld with back flow.
I moved up from a high freq box to 180 SD Miller several years ago by filling a full house against a flush.

God Bless
Dominus Vobiscum
Swagman

You don't count. Your just a nice guy.

 

[JKoravos]

Well, as long as they work, no big deal. It's not a fermenter.

That being said. I learned to weld in while on a research assignment at a place that did fab for high vacuum service (all welds x-ray inspected). The welding engineer was a friendly guy and taught me how to weld with back gas (even though I didn't know the importance at the time). The first coupling I ever welded looked better than those.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Ok, I'll pay the jerk in the crowd.

In the first pic there is a pin hole where the weldor stopped. That's a possible leak. Have you tested them yet?
All in all, they will be just fine if they don't leak. I wouldn't have them weld anything used after the boil though. IMO for $10 bucks a weld, that's what you got. I'm not trying to be rude, just pointing out the short comings since you asked, and no one else did.

GreenMonti; now your getting into my turf with harsh replies LOL! Just me what can I say I fully agree one gets well almost what they pay for.
We have some ripoff SS shops in my area that see "instant sucker" when a home brewer walks in with a project, rather sad. I must add many walk ins do not realize the inital cost of the welder, consumable items, labor,
welding talent applied plus electricity used then wondering why the high cost.

 

[Nerdie]

i wouldn't mind paying a little more.. just hard to find someone to do it! If it was TOO much I would do it myself.. my friend has a MIG.... or I would buy my own TIG.. My brother is a welder.. but just works on bridges and buildings.. said he didn't know how to do SS...

 

[BrewBeemer]

This should about do it, think about the money you saved on DIY, bottle not incluced.
http://store.cyberweld.com/milsyn350lxt.html

 

[GreenMonti]

i wouldn't mind paying a little more.. just hard to find someone to do it! If it was TOO much I would do it myself.. my friend has a MIG.... or I would buy my own TIG.. My brother is a welder.. but just works on bridges and buildings.. said he didn't know how to do SS...

Yea, sheet metal is a bit different from structural type welding. SS has a few rules that need to be followed IMO. Others, I'm sure will disagree.

The welding can be done via MIG, it leaves you more prone to a leaky weld though. You are really getting into a "skill set" of the welder there. You must be disciplined in your starts and stops for sure. Let alone the thickness that is being dealt with. Being two different thickness. Proper machine setting is critical. Things happen so fast with MIG, its hard to take your time blending the two pieces together. You still need to purge the weld too.

 

[Nerdie]

damn that's expensive... I would probably just use my friend's MIG at the auto shop... can't u get that cheaper on Craigslist? I just like to learn all trades... Not saying i'll be good at it... personally i would like to find someone who can actually do sanitary SS locally.

 

[GreenMonti]

This should about do it, think about the money you saved on DIY, bottle not incluced.
http://store.cyberweld.com/milsyn350lxt.html

Ha,Ha.

$6,496.00

Time to open some doors. Some cost overruns will need to be absorbed.

 

[GreenMonti]

damn that's expensive... I would probably just use my friend's MIG at the auto shop... can't u get that cheaper on Craigslist? I just like to learn all trades... Not saying i'll be good at it... personally i would like to find someone who can actually do sanitary SS locally.

If you can, please don't shy away from learning. Used units are out there.

For me, there is something about welding. Its just me and the arc when the lid is down. Rhythmic. During any process, MIG, TIG, Stick...

 

[BrewBeemer]

My old clunker a fully loaded late 1991 Miller Synchrowave 350, WP-20 torch, Miller HD foot peddle, custom stinger leads as well cooler I built plus two 260 cu/ft Argon owner owned bottles with flow meters / regulators, 900X Speedglas hood. Out of pocket i'm into it rather deep nearing the $300 mark when purchased. later paid me back in thousands of dollars welding for my company on the side.

 

[Nerdie]

OH man OH man... stop it guys... u are going to make me quit my job.... I'm a HS teacher.. having second thoughts on going back... LOL.. thinking of professionally brewing... maybe even weld on the side too now LOL.... I can take classes at colleges for free... i do have an AmeriCorp stipend...

$300 is a great price! Not even half the price of my SS single tier...

I must stop this madness! :Think security:

 

[BrewBeemer]

You'll then like the Millermatic 251 Mig, 30A Spoolgun, dual bottle rack, twin flow meters / regulators as well a owner owned C25 260 cu/ft bottle.
This purchased with left over money after taking the family to Hawaii 7 days plus $1,500 added to each kids future college fund. All this paid for off the removed copper for future wire pulls on a job site. To top this off a slightly used Hypertherm Max20 plasma for $125, a rather small plasma but the price was right.

Hey nerdie, by 9 PM left coast time this forum's dead as the right coasters need their beauty sleep LOL!

Left coast GreenMonti must be old he took his nap.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

damn that's expensive... I would probably just use my friend's MIG at the auto shop... can't u get that cheaper on Craigslist? I just like to learn all trades... Not saying i'll be good at it... personally i would like to find someone who can actually do sanitary SS locally.

Be careful with what you find used. Unless you know how to evaluate the rig, you have no idea if it works properly much less what it may cost to fix any problems. I'd love to find a used rig at a reasonable price and have someone like BrewBeemer, or GreenMonti check it out. Unfortunately, I'm on the right coast and they are both on the wrong coast

BTW... Hey BrewBeemer!!! It's almost 9am, where you at? You sleeping in again??