Questions on running 2 120v elements on 1 PID

[Munkee915]

I've been working at moving towards electric brewing for the past few months now and have been slowly buying parts. The big hold up was trying to figure out a 240v power source. My garage does have a 240v dryer outlet but it is non GFI and about 20 ft away from my stand. In the end I decided to go 120v because the cost of running a new line/building a GFI extension was more than I liked and we plan to move out of state soon and will probably rent a place at first and im sure i will have an easier time finding 120v power than 240v. Also I have a 15a and 20a outlet in the garage both already have GFI protection.

Anyway, I am trying to figure out the best way to wire these up. I am looking at either a 2000w + 1500w or 1500w + 1500w. Either way running 1 element off each outlet i have available. Ideally I would like to control them both off 1 PID. I did find a diagram that's close to what I'm looking for:

However this diagram calls for matching elements and outlets. Since I will be using mismatched elements and outlets I'm not sure this will work for me. Any suggestions on making this work?

 

[robfar]

Yes, you can control two SSR's with one PID. Your PID control voltage runs to the two SSR'S in parallel.

 

[Rivenin]

it'll work just fine. i've been brewing with 2 x 120v for about 2ish years now.
the voltages can be mismatched (1500w and 2000w for example) just need to make sure you know what element is on what outlet, and make sure all of your wiring is up to 2000w as well.

 

[Munkee915]

That's good to know, thanks. The next part then would be for me to tweak the diagram to fit my planned setup. I have a chugger to pump the wort through the HEX so I will need to put that on a PID to cycle the pump as needed. The same pump will also pump the wort into the BK at the end of the mash but I can do that by putting the PID into manual mode. My 2nd smaller pump will whirlpool the water in the HLT during mash and then pump water into the MT during sparge (switched with a ball valve) so that should work with a simple on/off setup.

I would also like to switch my BK to electric using another 2 elements and a small pump to circulate wort during boil. Since the elements wont run at the same time as the HLT elements I should be OK with the same lines I'm using for the HLT just switched over (or just unplug the HLT/plug in the BK) but I will have to circle back to that later once I get the first part of the wiring ironed out.

 

[Boar Beer]

Munkee
I see lots of people making similar set ups and that is fine. But IMO you are better off just building a BK with electric controls. Make your Hot water in the BK and pump it over to the MT and then make your sparge water and send it to a HLT and hold it there until needed.
good luck with your new build

PS nice drawing

 

[Just-a-sip]

What about 2 low watt elements run from a single 240 outlet. And 1 pid. Would this work and would it eliminate or reduce scorching due to the lower wattage.

 

[Munkee915]

Munkee
I see lots of people making similar set ups and that is fine. But IMO you are better off just building a BK with electric controls. Make your Hot water in the BK and pump it over to the MT and then make your sparge water and send it to a HLT and hold it there until needed.
good luck with your new build

PS nice drawing

Thanks, but its not mine. It's one of P-J's. One thing I should have mentioned is that this will be a HERMS setup. So the elements will need to be in the HLT in order to maintain the temps during recirculation. Plus I'm not too keen on having to move all that liquid around.

 

[doug293cz]

I've been working at moving towards electric brewing for the past few months now and have been slowly buying parts. The big hold up was trying to figure out a 240v power source. My garage does have a 240v dryer outlet but it is non GFI and about 20 ft away from my stand. In the end I decided to go 120v because the cost of running a new line/building a GFI extension was more than I liked and we plan to move out of state soon and will probably rent a place at first and im sure i will have an easier time finding 120v power than 240v. Also I have a 15a and 20a outlet in the garage both already have GFI protection.

Anyway, I am trying to figure out the best way to wire these up. I am looking at either a 2000w + 1500w or 1500w + 1500w. Either way running 1 element off each outlet i have available. Ideally I would like to control them both off 1 PID. I did find a diagram that's close to what I'm looking for:

However this diagram calls for matching elements and outlets. Since I will be using mismatched elements and outlets I'm not sure this will work for me. Any suggestions on making this work?

This drawing will work for you. You need to be careful to keep the neutral connections matched to the corresponding hot connections. If you connect neutral #2 to anything getting power from hot #1 (or vice versa) you will trip your GFCI's constantly. You also, can't run a 2000W heater off of a 15A circuit. 1500W is the max you can do. Best option would be to run 2X 1500W heaters, but you still need to be sure that the 20A circuit is connected to the control box circuit that connects the pump.

Brew on

 

[Rivenin]

you can do 1650 off of the 15amp outlets, but you'll be cutting it close with a pump running

 

[Munkee915]

This drawing will work for you. You need to be careful to keep the neutral connections matched to the corresponding hot connections. If you connect neutral #2 to anything getting power from hot #1 (or vice versa) you will trip your GFCI's constantly. You also, can't run a 2000W heater off of a 15A circuit. 1500W is the max you can do. Best option would be to run 2X 1500W heaters, but you still need to be sure that the 20A circuit is connected to the control box circuit that connects the pump.

Brew on

The 2000w will be running off the 20a line and the 1500 off the 15a. I just have to make sure I never get the plugs switched when connecting everything on brew day. Although I was considering going w/ 2 1500w elements in the end to give me a bit more overhead on the 20a line for running pumps and anything else I might want to add. Also it would make it easier for me to take with me in the future, as im sure it will be easier to find 2 15a circuits in whatever place I end up getting. By my calculations the missing 500w will only change my heating times by a few minutes.

 

[doug293cz]

The 2000w will be running off the 20a line and the 1500 off the 15a. I just have to make sure I never get the plugs switched when connecting everything on brew day. Although I was considering going w/ 2 1500w elements in the end to give me a bit more overhead on the 20a line for running pumps and anything else I might want to add. Also it would make it easier for me to take with me in the future, as im sure it will be easier to find 2 15a circuits in whatever place I end up getting. By my calculations the missing 500w will only change my heating times by a few minutes.

Sounds like you understand the options.

I'm curious about your desire to control a pump with a PID. Are you talking about using a speed controlled pump, a variable valve for throttling the pump, or turning the pump on and off at a fairly high rate?

Brew on

 

[Munkee915]

well i was thinking about kicking the pump on and off to pump wort through the HEX as needed when/if the temp drops. After further research it seems it would be better to have the pump run during the whole mash (throttle with a ball valve after the outlet) and just use 1 PID to control the HLT temps. I like this as it means that's 1 less PID I have to buy and can just hook the pump up to a simple on/off switch.