Question on cider with Nottingham

[dave8274]

I'm currently making Ed's Apfelwein exactly as the original recipe suggests, but I am also wanting to try a dry cider that I can drink a little sooner.

When I was at the LHBS getting the ingredients for the Apfelwein, the guy who works there suggested using Nottingham yeast and just plain juice, no added sugar.

Would this give me a result much different than the Apfelwein, and if so, in what way? Also, would adding extra sugar to up the ABV a little have an effect on flavor or would it just make it stronger?

Thanks!

 

[embreedow]

I'm still pretty new, but it would definitely be less strong in terms of alcohol, but you could also drink it sooner.

 

[skadalajara]

I love Nottingham for simple cider.
I let mine sit for 6 to 8 weeks in primary, rack to secondary for at least 2 months. Then I bottle it and age it another 6 to 8 months. It comes out crystal clear and dry, but with slight fruit notes.
I let a few bottles of my first try age a full year. They were delicious!
But I do prefer a dry, wine-like cider.

 

[blades144]

I haven't tried the Nottingham yet but personally the fastest yeast I have used on my ciders is the White Labs WLP775 English Cider Yeast (Liquid). I've bottled a batch after 12 days of single stage fermenting with a bucket with an F.G. of .997, and that was with 4 cups of corn sugar (sue me I have no scale).

 

[JtotheA]

To the OP...Nottingham is always a good choice and will also power through a higher gravity must. Your LHBS person actually gave you great advice by saying to not add any sugar. You'll end up with a very drinkable cider sooner than later. Adding sugar to the must will give you more of a "apple wine" that is stronger and require some aging in order to mellow.
It all depends on what you're after. I've experimented with (and strictly stick with) ale yeasts. Belgium is my personal go to fave.
Last but not least, the slower you ferment your cider, the better. Cooler temps are ideal if possible. Too fast = too hot. Cheers and good luck!

 

[blades144]

I am pretty new to cider myself so I can't say mine fermented at too high a temp but the last 6 batches were at 72 degrees. From what I have read that was an ideal temp for the yeast I used. I don't know if that is bad or good but all 6 seemed to turn out great by all accounts so far. I tend to drink mine a bit green but there are tons of threads about how long you should let it sit. I tend to keg half and deal with never letting it age too much. SWMBO Back sweetens with Splenda since she's diabetic and I go dry.

 

[JtotheA]

I am pretty new to cider myself so I can't say mine fermented at too high a temp but the last 6 batches were at 72 degrees. From what I have read that was an ideal temp for the yeast I used. I don't know if that is bad or good but all 6 seemed to turn out great by all accounts so far. I tend to drink mine a bit green but there are tons of threads about how long you should let it sit. I tend to keg half and deal with never letting it age too much. SWMBO Back sweetens with Splenda since she's diabetic and I go dry.

I like it!! I drink mine a bit green also and prefer it that way. And on the same note, also have a diabetic friend who indulges in my stuff and will tell me if it's too sweet or dry. If it's too dry, I tell her there's some Splenda in the cupboard. Ha. Cheers to drinking it a bit green and natural.

 

[Bauerbrewery1989]

Just a side note- if for whatever reason you wanted to boost the abv, I suggest dextrose (corn sugar). I've had great success with getting a very clean flavor vs other sugars. Ive made 2 ciders side by side, with the only difference being the sugars, one dextrose, one table sugar. Dextrose came out much better.

 

[tokerlund]

I just did 3 gallon in June and it is almost all gone. I go 2-3 weeks in primary and then right in the bottle or keg. The great part about Nottingham is that with straight juice, I have been able to have it stop fermenting at about 1.010. It leave plenty of flavor, a bit of sweetness and can power through apple juice in a short amount of time. Of course, waiting longer does improve the flavor, but I want something that is quick and easy to drink between my fruit wines and beers.

Try it an enjoy!

I also like to use a Wheat Beer yeast like WB-06. In my recent experiment, it left the most apple flavor.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/cider-experiment-416175/

 

[dave8274]

Thanks all!

I started a batch in a 6 gallon Better Bottle with 5+ gallons of juice and a packet of Nottingham. I left more head space than I did with the Apfelwein, but I guess it wasn't enough. Got up this morning to discover brown water in my airlock, so switched it out for a blow off tube. Looks like it's fermenting pretty well!

 

[Danno81]

base recepie : 5.25 gallons o apple juice 1 can of concentrate and 2lbs brown sugar and I aerated the **** out if it

ive had this fermenting for 2 weeks now and it's still bubbling every 2-3 seconds I used a starter of wyeast 1256 that didn't take off after 3 days so I added a packet of Nottingham

 

[Danno81]

How long should I expect to have the later of bubbles on top before I can get it into a clearing tank

 

[dave8274]

I've had the Nottingham Cider going for 5 days now, and airlock activity has almost stopped. Is that normal? It seems a little soon. Also, the color is still dark, not sure sure if it is supposed to lighten and clear like the apfelwein.

How do you know when this stuff is done?

 

[50SuperDeluxe]

I've had the Nottingham Cider going for 5 days now, and airlock activity has almost stopped. Is that normal? It seems a little soon. Also, the color is still dark, not sure sure if it is supposed to lighten and clear like the apfelwein.

How do you know when this stuff is done?

I'd say you really need t o use your hydrometer to know you've finished out.

I use Notty for my ciders as well because I like it a touch sweet, not apple soda pop, but not tongue sucking dry either. I go with pasteurized juice, 5gal, and two pounds of brown sugar pasteurized to 150º. Pectic enzyme, a little yeast nutrient. I've also added a spot of acid blend. My current batch also has a full box of Hibiscus tea in one quart of water added, steeped 5 minutes after coming to a boil. Notty finishes out for me at 1.012. Just sweet enough. I prime with 20 oz of leftover juice at bottleing semi sweet, fizzy strongbow-ish and so easy its a crime to pay for it.

 

[will_rouse]

I'd say you really need t o use your hydrometer to know you've finished out.

I use Notty for my ciders as well because I like it a touch sweet, not apple soda pop, but not tongue sucking dry either. I go with pasteurized juice, 5gal, and two pounds of brown sugar pasteurized to 150º. Pectic enzyme, a little yeast nutrient. I've also added a spot of acid blend. My current batch also has a full box of Hibiscus tea in one quart of water added, steeped 5 minutes after coming to a boil. Notty finishes out for me at 1.012. Just sweet enough. I prime with 20 oz of leftover juice at bottleing semi sweet, fizzy strongbow-ish and so easy its a crime to pay for it.

How long do you age yours for? This is the same recipe I used minus the acid blend.

 

[StoneArcher]

Do you know what your OG was when you pitched? Did you add any sugar? I did a three gallon of nothing but AJ and Notty once; Had to choke it all down. It was a joke of ABV, ranking just about three percent, tasted not so hot either. It was Indian Summer AJ. YMMV.

 

[Danno81]

How long do you age yours for? This is the same recipe I used minus the acid blend.

I too have the same recepie going but I mixed the Nottingham with Wyeast 1056 (1056 didn't takeoff for 2 days so I Added the noting ham) now it's had an active fermentation for 3 weeks@ 68 Degrees. I checked it last night for the first time and its @ 1.012 ( OG was 1.065 ) so it's about 5% now. All the yeast is still on top in a thick layer. Tasted F-ing great cant wait for it to be done.

 

[50SuperDeluxe]

I wish I could keep it around. I'm guilty too but it starts getting consumed as soon as it carbs up! Ill be liooking to squirrel away some bottles from this hibiscus batch but I need to almost keep a batch going at all times to neet demand. The first couple batches with other yeasts werr too dry and then the stovetop pasteurization fiasco pushed me to try yeadts that would end sweet and carb up. So far Notty is it. Age it? I'm sick of this d stuff, bring me some fesh! (Paraphrase from Steve Martin in The Jerk)

 

[dave8274]

Do you know what your OG was when you pitched? Did you add any sugar? I did a three gallon of nothing but AJ and Notty once; Had to choke it all down. It was a joke of ABV, ranking just about three percent, tasted not so hot either. It was Indian Summer AJ. YMMV.

I used Tree Top which has an SG of 1.050 so I'm expecting 5-5.5% ABV

 

[Danno81]

Omg this is amazing!! I think I hear Angels singing.... the best thing I have tasted in ages. Mmmmm (yum)

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Here is a thread with my experience with a simple cider with Nottingham:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/simple-cider-nottingham-fermentation-schedule-398792/

The ferment for a cider is much slower than for a beer. The last 10 points or so of gravity take a while to go away. If you are drinking it now you are still getting sugar and flavor notes that will ferment away in a few weeks. Mine finished up and carbed well, but it was dry and rather lifeless. Some tannin and perhaps a little backsweetening would have made it better.

 

[Danno81]

I started this batch on 7/28 24 days ago it was dry as hell so i added 1 can apple concentrate and 2 cans raspberry/cranberry concentrate and put it in my keg and carbed it up delicious now

 

[Keith66]

I've done a couple cinnamon apple ciders and a simple cider with Wyeast cider yeast which were pretty yummy. All were backsweetened and pasteurized. My last batch was pretty good even before I backsweetened and added cinnamon for swmbo. Now I want to try a simple cider with 5 gallons of off-the-shelf juice, a few to several cans of FAJC, and Nottingham, no backsweetening. My goal is a fairly dry, slightly sweet cider with ABV up around 7 or so. I've become too chicken to pasteurize anymore, and I think I like it drier than previous batches, so I'm thinking of fermenting it out then priming and bottling. Any thoughts?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I've done a couple cinnamon apple ciders and a simple cider with Wyeast cider yeast which were pretty yummy. All were backsweetened and pasteurized. My last batch was pretty good even before I backsweetened and added cinnamon for swmbo. Now I want to try a simple cider with 5 gallons of off-the-shelf juice, a few to several cans of FAJC, and Nottingham, no backsweetening. My goal is a fairly dry, slightly sweet cider with ABV up around 7 or so. I've become too chicken to pasteurize anymore, and I think I like it drier than previous batches, so I'm thinking of fermenting it out then priming and bottling. Any thoughts?

I'd look into EdWort's Apfelwein. It's basically a cider fermented with wine yeast, ferments dry, and can be bottle primed just like beer. When first fermented it is very dry, but let it age a few months and the apple flavor comes back. It's easy and really good stuff.

 

[Keith66]

I'd look into EdWort's Apfelwein. It's basically a cider fermented with wine yeast, ferments dry, and can be bottle primed just like beer. When first fermented it is very dry, but let it age a few months and the apple flavor comes back. It's easy and really good stuff.

Yeahhh... that whole "let it age" thing doesn't work so well at my house. I'd have to make it way faster than I can drink it, and that would require more carboys/buckets, and that would require swmbo's permission, and with the perception that I'm making way more alcohol than I need, especially when combined with brewing beer, that could be a challenge. (It's worth a try though!) But EdWort's Apfelwein sounds very close to my plan, just with added FAJC and Notty at the start. I'll have to try it with Montrachet sometime. Thanks for the feedback TC! I've been meaning to look at EdWort's Apfelwein thread for a long time, just never have until now. Thanks!

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

You can certainly drink apfelwein young, but it really does improve amazingly after a few months. Hand the SWMBO a chilled glass of 6-month apfelwein and she'll be buying you buckets to make more.

 

[dave8274]

Should this cider clear when it is done? I've had it in the carboy for a month now, it stopped fermenting weeks ago, but you still can't see through the carboy completely.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Try warming up the carboy, up into the 70s if it isn't already there. There is a lot of dissolved CO2 in cider and apfelwein which tends to slow down clarifying. Warming it up might help. Also racking to a secondary might help too.

If you're planning to bottle carb I wouldn't worry about it and just bottle it like beer. It will fall clear and you'll get a little dust of trub in the bottles, but it will be fine. My cider was *crystal* clear in the bottle.

 

[dave8274]

Thanks. Would you suggest using corn sugar or a quality apple juice as priming sugar?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Either will work, but priming with apple juice isn't going to add anything flavor-wise. I used table sugar.

I do recommend that you taste the cider before you bottle it. In my experience the plain Nottingham cider was very flat and uninteresting taste-wise. Getting through two cases of it was more of a chore than a delight. If you want to add some tannin (tea) or a little acidity to improve body and flavor, now is the time to do it. You could also dry hop in secondary if you want to get a hop aroma going.

 

[dave8274]

Either will work, but priming with apple juice isn't going to add anything flavor-wise. I used table sugar.

I do recommend that you taste the cider before you bottle it. In my experience the plain Nottingham cider was very flat and uninteresting taste-wise. Getting through two cases of it was more of a chore than a delight. If you want to add some tannin (tea) or a little acidity to improve body and flavor, now is the time to do it. You could also dry hop in secondary if you want to get a hop aroma going.

I like the idea of the tea. How would you recommend using it/how much for a 5 gallon batch?

Would I just make some hot tea with a few bags, cool it, and put it in the bottling bucket with the priming sugar?

 

[Keith66]

Just mixed 5 gallons of TreeTop juice with 5 (12oz) cans of FAJC, and a pack of Notty Ale. The 6 gallons of 1.065 are just starting to show signs of fermentation after 12 hours in a glass carboy. I usually do cider in a bucket, but I wanna watch this batch. Based on past ciders, I'm expecting to get down to 1.003 - 0.997. After that, I'm gonna add priming sugar and bottle. My last batch tasted crisp and appley after fermentation, then I added 5 cans of FAJC and caramel flavoring for swmbo. And I'm too chicken to stove-top pasteurize anymore. I'll keep you posted on the new batch.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I like the idea of the tea. How would you recommend using it/how much for a 5 gallon batch?

Would I just make some hot tea with a few bags, cool it, and put it in the bottling bucket with the priming sugar?

Pretty much. Check out Graham's Cider recipe for amounts people seem to like:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/grahams-english-cider-107152/

You're adding at the end of the ferment, but it should work just as well. I'd probably make the "tea" by heating up a bit of the cider and steeping in that. I'd heat it up just to make sure it is all sanitary (including juice if you add some) before you pitch it back in. Then rack and bottle as usual.

 

[Keith66]

Just mixed 5 gallons of TreeTop juice with 5 (12oz) cans of FAJC, and a pack of Notty Ale. The 6 gallons of 1.065 are just starting to show signs of fermentation after 12 hours in a glass carboy. I usually do cider in a bucket, but I wanna watch this batch. Based on past ciders, I'm expecting to get down to 1.003 - 0.997. After that, I'm gonna add priming sugar and bottle. My last batch tasted crisp and appley after fermentation, then I added 5 cans of FAJC and caramel flavoring for swmbo. And I'm too chicken to stove-top pasteurize anymore. I'll keep you posted on the new batch.

5 days in the fermenter so far. It foamed up (white, some of it was StarSan) and kept the airlock busy for the first few, now the foam is mostly gone and it's bubbling slowly at the surface with little yeasty floaties drifting up and down from the 1/4 inch yeast cake at the bottom. I'll wait til it's done bubbling then take a sample. Several more days I expect. It's been staying about 74-76 on the strip thermometer on the glass carboy. I'm getting mighty thirsty for some cider!

 

[oddcarout]

I have a simple cider going. It is made from raw apple cider, brown sugar and Nottingham. I need to backsweeten - swmbo - and I was wondering if I could use splenda without affecting the bottling. I am going to prime and bottle, just like I do beer, does this make sense? Also is using peptic enzyme to clear up the cider a good idea? if so when should I add it?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Backsweetening with Splenda is fine if you're OK with the flavor. You can bottle as normal as the Splenda won't ferment.

I've never used pectic enzyme.

 

[oddcarout]

Thanks,
I think I was supposed to use it when I was adding everything to the ferment bucket. I might try it with another batch.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Nope - add the Splenda to a little warm water and add it at bottling. Taste and add until it is where you want it to be, then add priming sugar and bottle.

EDIT: now that I read your post I realized that you were talking about pectic enzyme. You can add pectic enzyme whenever you want, but you'll have to wait for the yeasts to finish fermenting whatever fermentables get cleaved by the enzyme, so primary is probably best by a time standpoint. If you can afford another few weeks in the fermenter you can add it now.

 

[oddcarout]

I have a hard time waiting but know in the end it is worth it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[jedijon]

I've used champage cider, nottingham's, english cider yeast, and some belgian yeasts.

There hasn't been any noticeable difference in fermentation speed, the open topped fermentations I've tried have been a mess of secondary bacterias that are a real risk, and you can feed it half a lb (in 5-6 gallons) every day or so and get to ~14%ABV [although it needed 6+ months of aging to be decent and I don't prefer it].

What DOES make a huge difference is amount of yeast. Fermentation temperature slightly less so [65 best taste, add 1 day to initial ferment, 70-75 is more normal in my house in early fall when most of my cider is getting made].

My current method is to put ~1/2 a pint jar of saved yeast in 5-7 gallons. Bubbling slows in 2-4 days. I feed it sugar then [so the initial blow-off isn't QUITE so dramatic] around 0.5lb/gallon. They start at ~1.050 and finish just under 1.000 after it's all said/done. Fireworks are over in a week. Clarity typically reached in 6 weeks, secondary is NOT required. Bottle conditioning (mine are bubbly) follows @ 3 volumes target.