Pulling a sample vs putting the hydrometer in the bucket.

[muels]

I have never taken a sample with my thief, I always just carefully set the hydrometer in the bucket and call it good. Been doing it for a couple years and have never had an issue. I figure it's simple to wipe off the glass hydrometer and shoot it with a little starsan rather than trying to mess with the thief. Plus, there no waste.

I realize with a carboy this is probably not an option but I've always been a bucket guy.

Any reason I'm missing that it should be done a different way?

 

[bkboiler]

hydrometers break very easily and have the propensity to ruin an entire batch of beer (since some contain lead BBs).
that being said, a poorly sanitized thief can do the same thing...

 

[ballsy]

Nope, been doing it like u since day 1 too

 

[slym2none]

If my fermentor was large enough, I'd do it that way, too.

 

[Gavin C]

Any reason I'm missing that it should be done a different way?

Yes

Accuracy

Taking a gravity reading in the bucket introduces more potential for measurement error. If I'm going to bother measuring something, I want the data to be accurate.

Errors are introduced in a number of ways including.

• Beer is most likely not at the calibration temperature of the hydrometer
• Bubbles on the surface of the beer will obscure the view
• Impossible to view hydrometer/meniscus at eye level
• Floating debris can adhere to hydrometer affecting reading
• Fermenting beer will produce CO2 and a corresponding upward force on the hydrometer.
• Inconsistency in readings as a result of the previously listed variables

If accuracy does not concern you then there are no disadvantages to measuring directly in the bucket.

Here is a gravity reading taken of a lager today as an example of the alternate method.

Sample at correct calibration temperature


SG measured after removing adherent CO2 bubbles (fermentation still ongoing)


Brewday data of the same beer

 

[muels]

Dam, I can't see the pics.

 

[muels]

Double

 

[slym2none]

Dam, I can't see the pics.

Yeah, something is up with the attachments (& I think the HBT uploaded pics too) tonight.

 

[muels]

Either way, good points Gavin. Thanks

 

[Gavin C]

Either way, good points Gavin. Thanks

No worries mate. All nit picky stuff. PM sent with the images. Not sure it matters or makes any difference. Some issues with the server today it would seem. Multiple WTF threads today and a confirmation from Admin that changes are afoot.

 

[slym2none]

Dang it, Gavin... you make far too much sense!

OK, I'll never use my FV as my test-cylinder.

 

[JawZziff]

Yes

Accuracy

Taking a gravity reading in the bucket introduces more potential for measurement error. If I'm going to bother measuring something, I want the data to be accurate.

Errors are introduced in a number of ways including.

• Beer is most likely not at the calibration temperature of the hydrometer
• Bubbles on the surface of the beer will obscure the view
• Impossible to view hydrometer/meniscus at eye level
• Floating debris can adhere to hydrometer affecting reading
• Fermenting beer will produce CO2 and a corresponding upward force on the hydrometer.
• Inconsistency in readings as a result of the previously listed variables

I can't help but think there is just enough room for these errors to happen in a thief, no?

 

[Pkrd]

In a bucket you don't get to taste the sample unless you go bobbing for it.

 

[Gavin C]

I can't help but think there is just enough room for these errors to happen in a thief, no?

I don't measure in a thief so I can't speak to that.

I use a test jar and it allows elimination of all the problems I listed.
The right tool for the job.

 

[PGEduardo]

My guess is that this method is perfectly fine for 99.99% of homebrewers. If you expect your FG to be around 1.012, you should be able to ballpark that viewing from an off-angle. Or double-check with a drop or two from your hydrometer onto a refractometer (using the correction factors).

If you truly cared about nit-picking accuracy to five significant figures you'd already own a set of narrow range hydrometers...

 

[Gavin C]

If you truly cared about nit-picking accuracy to five significant figures you'd already own a set of narrow range hydrometers...

See above

 

[PGEduardo]

See above

I get that YOU care about accuracy to five significant figures, I was referring to the OP. This thread came across as question regarding sanitation/general best practices, not a concern about absolute accuracy in SG readings.

There's a huge spectrum in home(or commercial I'm sure) brewers - some don't bother with any measurements and some go to extremes to get ultra precise readings. My guess is that the vast majority settle for the OP's level of precision - close enough for excellent beer.

 

[PlexVector]

In a bucket you don't get to taste the sample unless you go bobbing for it.

I believe there was a thread a while back where a poster was doing almost the equivalent of that.

We should learn to recognize when our "Beer Sense" is tingling...

Edit: @muels, I agree with @Gavin C and in support he is describing what are called present "Best Practices".

 

[Gavin C]

I get that YOU care about accuracy to five significant figures, I was referring to the OP. This thread came across as question regarding sanitation/general best practices, not a concern about absolute accuracy in SG readings.

I'm not really sure where you inferring that this thread is only about sanitation is coming from. This is the beginners' section so any and all advantages/disadvantages can apply or be relevant.

Why are you repeatedly mentioning that I'm suggesting a need for 5 significant figures? I'm not.

I measure to 3 as all homebrewers who measure do.
1.038, 1.047 and 1.014 were values I illustrated in my example.

The OP asked about disadvantages and I listed one, accuracy. Sanitation/contamination is not a disadvantage IMO so I did not mention it.

Accuracy in hydrometer readings is not a concern for all brewers and for those folks there are no disadvantages to doing what the OP asks about. Clearly you would include yourself in that group.

Not sure why my post has riled you up to be honest.

 

[m00ps]

Gavin FTW

Even accuracy aside, I wouldn't ever use a hydrometer straight in the bucket unless I literally had no other choice. Way too prone to infection keeping the bucket wide open that long and sticking your dirty ass face so close to it in order to take anything close to a goo reading. I would be wearing a hairnet and face mask if I had to peer close enough to the surface of my precious wort to read a hydrometer. I'd rather have no idea what the abv is than stick a hydrometer in my bucket

 

[PGEduardo]

I'm really not really sure where you inferring that this thread is only about sanitation is coming from. This is the beginners section so any and all advantages/disadvantages can apply or be relevant.

Why are you repeatedly mentioning that I'm suggesting a need for 5 significant figures? I'm not.

I measure to 3 as all homebrewers who measure do.
1.038, 1.047 and 1.014 were values I illustrated in my example.

...

Not sure why my post has riled you up to be honest.

I ASSuMEd that the narrow range hydrometers gave precision to 5 significant figures (1.0XXX) - although one could argue that you would ignore the 1.0 and thus only be reading 2 significant figures. X.XXX being 4 without leading zeros... but I digress.

I'm not riled up, just pointing out that there is nothing wrong with the OP's method if he keeps sanitation in order. True, he might have a slight offset due to viewing angle (which he could easily figure for), but as long as it's stable and not actively fermenting he's good to go.

 

[unviewtiful]

Gavin FTW

Even accuracy aside, I wouldn't ever use a hydrometer straight in the bucket unless I literally had no other choice. Way too prone to infection keeping the bucket wide open that long and sticking your dirty ass face so close to it in order to take anything close to a goo reading. I would be wearing a hairnet and face mask if I had to peer close enough to the surface of my precious wort to read a hydrometer. I'd rather have no idea what the abv is than stick a hydrometer in my bucket

Obviously you wash your face and then spray it with starsan before you get right up on the hydrometer.

I'm also in the test cylinder camp. I use a sanitized glass to pull the sample, then pour hard into my test cylinder. The high surface area to volume ratio helps the sample stabilize at room temp pouring it to a second container helps get rid of any dissolved CO2. If you're making a 5 gallon batch, it's easy enough to account for the 3-4 oz that you lose in the sample.

 

[Stillraining]

To the OP... Iv always been a bucket guy too...ones with valves in them, best way there is to pull samples.. Problem solved.

OK let the flaming begin.

 

[JawZziff]

"best practice" is the key words here for accuracy I suppose. I brew 1 gallon so a test sample size is a pretty significant portion of the batch. Quite honestly I've never even thought to stick the hydrometer into the fermenter but i'm going to have to try. I just chuckle at the thought of spritsing my face with starsan before going in for a reading lol.

All good things to consider here though for the OP. If you're doing one straight into the fermenter and worried about contamination, a candle right close to the opening would be an option perhaps. probably hard to set that up if you got a big plastic bucket with a wide lid.

 

[PlexVector]

"best practice" is the key words here for accuracy I suppose. I brew 1 gallon so a test sample size is a pretty significant portion of the batch. Quite honestly I've never even thought to stick the hydrometer into the fermenter but i'm going to have to try. I just chuckle at the thought of spritsing my face with starsan before going in for a reading lol.

All good things to consider here though for the OP. If you're doing one straight into the fermenter and worried about contamination, a candle right close to the opening would be an option perhaps. probably hard to set that up if you got a big plastic bucket with a wide lid.

I think Best Practices, at the risk of over using that phrase yet again in another industry, is the proper way of looking at the brewing industry now. What was considered dogma 10 years ago is being found to be not quite right or maybe just plain wrong--at least for the homebrew community when compared to pro-brewing. We are finding that some things should not be considered dogma, but rather "best practices" based on present knowledge and technology, and could or will change in the future. Even within the home brew community "best practices" can be different depending on Volume (1, 3, 5, 20 gal, etc,) and BIAB. It's different depending on the equipment (1, 2, 3, vessel) automated vs manual, gas fired vs electric, the list goes on. Best practices for a beginner could and in some cases are different than an advanced home brewer. Just saying...

Sorry, but I don't have time to give examples, but someone else please feel welcome to write a proper article on this subject, or a book.

 

[brewbama]

I used to float the hydrometer in the bucket in the 90's. I pull a sample thru a spigot now.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I just use airlock activity as a means to tell gravity. It's a very accurate way to tell where fermentation is at.

 

[max384]

I usually just get a reading in the bucket. It may not be as accurate, but it's accurate enough for me. And, when I've done both, there's been no difference between readings, which tells me I'm able to get a pretty accurate reading in the bucket.

Best practice? No. Good enough for me? You betcha!

I'm not really sure where you inferring that this thread is only about sanitation is coming from. This is the beginners' section so any and all advantages/disadvantages can apply or be relevant.

Why are you repeatedly mentioning that I'm suggesting a need for 5 significant figures? I'm not.

I measure to 3 as all homebrewers who measure do.
1.038, 1.047 and 1.014 were values I illustrated in my example.

The OP asked about disadvantages and I listed one, accuracy. Sanitation/contamination is not a disadvantage IMO so I did not mention it.

Accuracy in hydrometer readings is not a concern for all brewers and for those folks there are no disadvantages to doing what the OP asks about. Clearly you would include yourself in that group.

Not sure why my post has riled you up to be honest.

I can't help but nitpick here... You're actually measuring to 4 sig figs, unless, of course, you're measuring dry wine, where you'll likely be under a 1 OG...

 

[Pkrd]

Since I started kegging my fg sample is usually my first pour. I might use a thief and test jar when dry hopping if I'm unfamiliar with the yeast.

 

[nckid4u]

i just use airlock activity as a means to tell gravity. It's a very accurate way to tell where fermentation is at.

ha!

 

[slym2none]

I can't help but nitpick here... You're actually measuring to 4 sig figs, unless, of course, you're measuring dry wine, where you'll likely be under a 1 OG...

Nitpick back - he did say "significant" figures, which means for us beer brewers, we don't really count the whole number (1), just those after the decimal.

 

[brewcat]

Since I started kegging my fg sample is usually my first pour. I might use a thief and test jar when dry hopping if I'm unfamiliar with the yeast.

Umm...Carbonation? That will throw off your reading. Maybe I should assume you stir the sample to release the CO2?

I use a thief and test jar. I take my reading when I'm ready to bottle/keg. I want an accurate reading. Otherwise, why bother? Seems it is easier to draw a sample than mess with dropping a hydrometer in a bucket.

Accurate readings are very important & useful for designing recipes.

 

[JawZziff]

I think Best Practices, at the risk of over using that phrase yet again in another industry, is the proper way of looking at the brewing industry now. What was considered dogma 10 years ago is being found to be not quite right or maybe just plain wrong--at least for the homebrew community when compared to pro-brewing. We are finding that some things should not be considered dogma, but rather "best practices" based on present knowledge and technology, and could or will change in the future. Even within the home brew community "best practices" can be different depending on Volume (1, 3, 5, 20 gal, etc,) and BIAB. It's different depending on the equipment (1, 2, 3, vessel) automated vs manual, gas fired vs electric, the list goes on. Best practices for a beginner could and in some cases are different than an advanced home brewer. Just saying...

Sorry, but I don't have time to give examples, but someone else please feel welcome to write a proper article on this subject, or a book.

lol that is a big ol can of worms now isn't it?

 

[Stillraining]

We make simple things to hard sometimes.

 

[TurnipGreen]

There's a lot of science and numbers flying around here.

I use a thief. While I do take a gravity reading, when I pull a sample I do it just as much to give a taste. Where's the fun if you just get a number and no beer?

 

[sompls]

There's a lot of science and numbers flying around here.

I use a thief. While I do take a gravity reading, when I pull a sample I do it just as much to give a taste. Where's the fun if you just get a number and no beer?

You seem to have a handle on things just fine and we should all take a page out of your book...it's supposed to be fun...and beer!
p.s. when in doubt, @Gavin_C knows his stuff so a person could do way worse then follow his suggestions. If you're into science and stuff

 

[Pkrd]

Umm...Carbonation? That will throw off your reading. Maybe I should assume you stir the sample to release the CO2?

Gargle and spit.

 

[max384]

Nitpick back - he did say "significant" figures, which means for us beer brewers, we don't really count the whole number (1), just those after the decimal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_figures

 

[muels]

This is the reason I posted this in the beginners section! Thanks all.

Honestly I'm not all that concerned with the accuracy unless it's something completely different that I have never brewed or a new yeast. I have my process down pretty well and can pretty much tell where most of my stuff will finish within a point or two. I'll normally take a reading in the bucket as I'm getting ready to cold crash just so I can avoid any surprises.

I was really just hoping to spark a discussion and get a few pros and cons that may give me something that I hadn't thought of or read yet.

I also agree that Best practices may be a bit different for beginners and folks with more experience.

Thanks again.

 

[masskrug]

I just use airlock activity as a means to tell gravity. It's a very accurate way to tell where fermentation is at.

Count the bubbles for 6 seconds and then multiply that by 10. This is your Bubbles Per Minute (BPM) reading. This number should correlate to the last two digits of your gravity. For example, if your BPM = 20 then your gravity is 1.020. :hs: