Protein Rest. Is it necessary?

[fromhereon]

Is a protein rest really necessary other than trying to prevent chill haze.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Is a protein rest really necessary other than trying to prevent chill haze.

Give details of what you will be brewing. That will be kinda important for the people that want to advise you.

 

[Suthrncomfrt1884]

Short answer...no.

 

[BioBeing]

I think Palmer advises against it, as it can lead to destroying the proteins that make for good head retention etc.

 

[Edcculus]

No (generally)

Here is the reason. Todays malts are more highly modified than malts available even 10 years ago. Modification is a term that refers to how far the maltster lets the seeds germinate in the malting process. The germination process begins to release enzymes that break down starches and proteins (stored food reserves for the plant). The longer they let this go on, more proteins get broken down. Essentially, maltsters are doing your protein rest for you. Exceptions would come in if you purposefully seek out under modified malt to do traditional triple decoctions, or are brewing with a high protein malt like wheat or oats and still want a clear beer. If you are finding your beer is hazy after using whirlfloc in the boil and gelatin in the keg/end of primary, a very short protein rest might help.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Necessary? No. But a short p-rest can improve some beers even with today's well modified malts. There is a strong 'no protein rests' contingent on this forum, maybe it's from what Palmer says I'm not sure but I think p-rests get a bad rep. And I'm not even talking about clarity but more about beer body. A short p-rest with Pils malt is fine imo.

 

[jkarp]

I don't buy Palmer's argument 100%. At least I've never experienced it in my brews. Whenever I've got oats, wheat, or rye in the grist, I do a 15 minute protein rest just to make sparging easier.

 

[joety]

jkarp, are you saying it helps prevent a stuck sparge? I find myself using half a pound of rice hulls in any batch with wheat or oats in it.

 

[jkarp]

jkarp, are you saying it helps prevent a stuck sparge? I find myself using half a pound of rice hulls in any batch with wheat or oats in it.

Yup. Rice hulls help, short protein rest helps more, at least on my system.

 

[menschmaschine]

The whole concept of this thread is why I love malt analyses. Having it and understanding it can let you know your limits for time and/or temperature of protein-related rests. But there are very few situations in modern homebrewing where one needs a protein rest.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I don't buy Palmer's argument 100%. At least I've never experienced it in my brews. Whenever I've got oats, wheat, or rye in the grist, I do a 15 minute protein rest just to make sparging easier.

Dr Fix didn't buy Palmers assertion either.

A short protein rest can help with haze reduction. A long protein rest can destroy the head retention of a beer. Fining agents can be used negate the need for a protein rest used for haze reduction.

 

[joety]

The whole concept of this thread is why I love malt analyses. Having it and understanding it can let you know your limits for time and/or temperature of protein-related rests. But there are very few situations in modern homebrewing where one needs a protein rest.

Enjoying a glass of my Heart of Darkness Schwarzbier from a recent Zymurgy recipe, which is the first recipe I've done (and first lager for that matter) that called for a protein rest. It is absolutely delicious and well balanced, will definitely brew again, but I have no control to measure it against.

 

[babalu87]

Depends entirely on the malt analysis sheet

and No is the wrong answer

 

[pjj2ba]

Is a protein rest really necessary other than trying to prevent chill haze.

Neccesary, NO. One can brew good beer without doing a p-rest. I however am in the minority camp that believes a short protein rest can have a positive impact - particularly on increasing the body of the beer. If you go too long it will result in thin body, which just highlights the importance of protein in contributing to the body of beer.

With my system it is very easy for me to do step mashes. If with your system it would be a pain, then I wouldn't bother as it would probably just end up being frustrating.

 

[EvilGnome6]

The whole concept of this thread is why I love malt analyses. Having it and understanding it can let you know your limits for time and/or temperature of protein-related rests. But there are very few situations in modern homebrewing where one needs a protein rest.

Are there any nice rules of thumb on what to look for in a malt analysis to determine whether or not a protein rest would be beneficial? Is it primarily the Kolbach index?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Are there any nice rules of thumb on what to look for in a malt analysis to determine whether or not a protein rest would be beneficial? Is it primarily the Kolbach index?

Anything shown to be 12%+ of SP (Soluble Protein) or 1.9% TSN (Total Soluable Nitrogen) begs for a protein rest to prevent haze.

1% of Nitrogen equals 6.25% Protein.

 

[menschmaschine]

Are there any nice rules of thumb on what to look for in a malt analysis to determine whether or not a protein rest would be beneficial? Is it primarily the Kolbach index?

AKA, Soluble Nitrogen Ratio. Yes, that's the most valuable number to look at. Depending on the maltster, sometimes this number needs to be calculated from the analysis sheet. It's also a good idea to look at all protein/nitrogen-related parameters.

This page is a good reference from the late Greg Noonan.

Soluble protein (% SP) or nitrogen (% TSN): The amount of protein or nitrogen in soluble form, expressed as a percentage of malt weight. In whichever terms it is expressed, the SP or TSN parameters are used to calculate the soluble nitrogen ratio.

Soluble Nitrogen Ratio (% SNR). This ratio (also expressed as S/T [soluble/total], SN/TN [soluble nitrogen/total nitrogen], or Kolbach Index) is calculated by dividing the soluble nitrogen (or protein) value by the percent total nitrogen (or protein).

The SNR is an important indicator of malt modification. The higher the number, the more highly modified the malt. Malts destined for infusion mashing should have an SNR of 36-42%, or up to 45% for light-bodied beer. At a percentage much over 45% SNR, the beer will be thin in body and mouthfeel. For traditional lager malts, 30-33% indicates undermodification, and 37-40% indicates overmodification.

Brewers can accommodate increases in total protein and SNR by adding or modifying low-temperature rests. Decreases are accomodated by shortening the duration of or deleting low-temperature rests.

 

[beefeater]

So what do you guys consider a "short" P-rest; 15 minutes?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

So what do you guys consider a "short" P-rest; 15 minutes?

That is what I do.

 

[beefeater]

Thanks, I'll give my usual ale-mash a twist as an experiment.

I normally give my APAs a 90 minute single infusion mash at 65C (149F).
Testing 15min at 55C (131F) and 60 min at 66 (151F) next time.
Now, how to do the step; infusion or decoction..?
Probably infusion to keep things simple and not change too many variables.