I have just gotten a 15 gallon brew pot and i am noticing i could be going through a rhino tank in one brew this adds $20 to the cost of brewing. Is this correct the water was about 45 degrees and took 3.5 hours before coming within 10 degrees of boiling. Bayou says with 3lbs of propane at 30,000 btus it could last 9.1 hours and with 55,000 about 3-4 hours. So with sparge and wert boil i can go through a tank maybe two. So is going electric really the best option to cut costs?
Propane is a pain
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Cpt_Kirks
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Things are SOOO much simpler with electric brewing. No heat plume to fry the hair off your arms and your eyebrows. No carbon monoxide. It is MUCH harder to set the garage on fire. And...it's cheaper.
Things are SOOO much simpler with electric brewing. No heat plume to fry the hair off your arms and your eyebrows. No carbon monoxide. It is MUCH harder to set the garage on fire. And...it's cheaper.
hamiltont
Well-Known Member
That's crazy. I usually get at least three 10 gallon batches of beer out of a 20 lb. tank. I prepare the strike & sparge water the night before so they're at room temp to start. My burner is rated at 170K btu. You might want to check your air adjustment. I found that mine works best when allowing the least amount of air. If it sounds like a jet then you're probably bringing in too much air and the flame won't be efficient. You want a blue flame with just a hint of orange at the tip. Cheers!!!
OP
OP
FoulMouth
Well-Known Member
hamiltont said:
How long does it take to get to a boil. It took me 1.5 to get to 170 then 2 + hours to get to a boil. This again was at 45 degrees so room temp at at least 60+ would save about an hour i guess.
Yeah this is why it is nice to invest in the Blichmann Burner, gets you up to a boil quickly and won't waste your propane as fast as other burners.
http://www.blichmannengineering.com/brew_stand/brewstand_modular.html
http://www.blichmannengineering.com/brew_stand/brewstand_modular.html
With a three-burner system, 15 gallon kettles, that includes a 60 min mash, 40-60 min sparge, and up to a 90-min boil, we may go through half of a standard Rhino tank. YMMV, but I always keep one on standby just in case. It does seem that once we stepped up to all grain, our propane consumption increased quite a bit. That said, is natural gas an option?
Heating 15 gal with electric may consume quite a bit of watts ($$) and take longer. I don't have much experience here...just a hunch.
Heating 15 gal with electric may consume quite a bit of watts ($$) and take longer. I don't have much experience here...just a hunch.
nicadrick
Well-Known Member
Fill your kettle with room temp water. That even works when you are running through a charcoal filter.
I can get 13 gallons of 40F water to strike temp in 35 minutes with either a BG-10 or BG-12.
I always heat extra for cleanup water. I easily get 3 brews from a 20lb cylinder.
Cheers
I can get 13 gallons of 40F water to strike temp in 35 minutes with either a BG-10 or BG-12.
I always heat extra for cleanup water. I easily get 3 brews from a 20lb cylinder.
Cheers
hamiltont
Well-Known Member
Holy Cow!! From room temp I'm usually at 170F mash-in in about 45 minutes and from ~148F wort to boil in about 30 minutes. Can you convert your burner with something like this? 170,000 btu burner. Is your current burner high or low pressure?
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I changed over to a pair of Blichman burners and have been using the same two tanks (one on each) for several batches now. I expect to get at least one more before I need to get either refilled. I might get a spare so that iI don't need to worry about one running out during a session.
BTW, where the tank on the Bayou burner would get frost on it during use, the tank on either Blifhmann doesn't. Plus I actually get up to a boil faster. Both make burners use an element that appears identical.
Relax everyone.
I had this same issue when I first started brewing 10 gallons and I also use the Bayou Classic SQ-14. The solution is to turn the sucker up! It took my 4 hours to get a boil the first time I brewed with it, then I got a little less whimpy with the flame and it took me about 2 hours the next time. Now I'm down to about 45min to get ~13 gallons to a boil. I also get at least 2 brews out of a tank but I don't have a backup so I always fill it before the third use.
I had this same issue when I first started brewing 10 gallons and I also use the Bayou Classic SQ-14. The solution is to turn the sucker up! It took my 4 hours to get a boil the first time I brewed with it, then I got a little less whimpy with the flame and it took me about 2 hours the next time. Now I'm down to about 45min to get ~13 gallons to a boil. I also get at least 2 brews out of a tank but I don't have a backup so I always fill it before the third use.
thats why i love my NG system, 2x 23jets burners after plumbing and modifications cost me around $100 and they deliver enough btus to brew 10gal batches very comfortably (in time to grind my grain strike water is getting around 150F usually)
Doed
Belching Dog Brewery
GulfCoastGirl
Well-Known Member
Can you microwave a few gallons in big glass bowls in the microwave to get started with hotter water? I do this when I'm filling big pots to boil water to kill the fire ant hills.... the water takes much less time to boil when I start it in the microwave first.
I'm new to brewing so forgive me if that was a stupid suggestion
I'm new to brewing so forgive me if that was a stupid suggestion
I only do five gallon boils and it wasn't too bad with my old bayou, can't imagine what it would've been like with ten though. I do love the way the Blichmann burner heats up water though.
SirBrewsAlot
Active Member
What I do is heat my strike water in a in a two smaller pots on the stove. I do the same for my sparge water to conserve my propane. I only use my propane for my 60 min boil for my big pot. You can also start your 60 min boil after your first runnings if doing AG to heat the wort up quicker, rather than all at once.
Electric doesn't take longer (if you do it right). I'm not going to go into the list of advantages (and a couple of minor disadvantages, that's been done to death). But here's the math for my 240vac system, assuming $0.10 per kwh. I think I got it right... let me know if I made a mistake or left something out.
Strike water
6 gallons
70F->160F = 15 minutes (0.25h)
100% duty cycle
5.500kW * 0.25h * 100% = 1.38kWh
Sparge water 70F->160F = 15 minutes (0.25h)
100% duty cycle
5.500kW * 0.25h * 100% = 1.38kWh
10 gallons
70F->180F = 30 minutes (0.5h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.5h * 100% = 2.75kWh
70F->180F = 30 minutes (0.5h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.5h * 100% = 2.75kWh
Raise Wort to Boil
13 gallons
150F->212F = 20 minutes (0.33h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.33h * 100% = 1.82kWh
150F->212F = 20 minutes (0.33h)
100% duty cycle
5.5kW * 0.33h * 100% = 1.82kWh
Rolling Boil
13 gallons
@ 212F = 60 minutes (1.0h)
60% duty cycle
5.5kW * 1.0h * 60% = 3.30kWh
@ 212F = 60 minutes (1.0h)
60% duty cycle
5.5kW * 1.0h * 60% = 3.30kWh
Total energy: (1.38+2.75+1.82+3.30) kWh = 9.25kWh
Total Cost: 9.25kWh * $0.10 /kWh = $0.92
hamiltont
Well-Known Member
Just curious what that electric setup cost you & how it's configed. I've thought about electric but the cost just seems way out there for me. Thanks!!!
Oh, I should mention I don't have any electrical experience so I'd have to go with a turn key system.
Oh, I should mention I don't have any electrical experience so I'd have to go with a turn key system.
Yea, that's going to be a problem for you. Off the shelf is pricey, and still won't get you all the way there.
I was looking to go bigger batches, and the cost of the burners was going to be $200. I didn't spend much more than that to build my control box and install elements in my keggles. Maybe $250.
I'm getting ten gallons to a boil in about 20 min. On low flame too, not sure why. I have an 18 tip jet burner but I figure it's standard, the flames are almost 2 inches across. Is that not common? On high the flames can reach out halfway up the pot. Also 3 to 4 batches a tank
Jazman
Well-Known Member
I suspect you're having an issue with keeping the heat under the kettle and possibly having the regulator up too high. I do 10gal batches and get about 4 batches out of a 20lb tank of propane.
My Bayou burner sits WAY below the bottom of the kettle and heat just wafts away. Also, there's only so much heat you're going to transfer so turning the gas up doesn't create more heat. The burner is the same one that's in the Blichmann and if you look at pics of it, there is a wind shield around the burner below the kettle (the burner is also closer which is not really possible with a Bayou burner and stand).
So, I got some sheet metal and fashioned a wind screen. Once the burner is lit, I turn it up to just where the flames "jump" and then turn it back just a hair. This amounts to only around 1 1/2 turns on my regular valve. I'll get 12.5 gallons from 140 to boiling in 30 mins or so.
Best of luck,
Jaz
My Bayou burner sits WAY below the bottom of the kettle and heat just wafts away. Also, there's only so much heat you're going to transfer so turning the gas up doesn't create more heat. The burner is the same one that's in the Blichmann and if you look at pics of it, there is a wind shield around the burner below the kettle (the burner is also closer which is not really possible with a Bayou burner and stand).
So, I got some sheet metal and fashioned a wind screen. Once the burner is lit, I turn it up to just where the flames "jump" and then turn it back just a hair. This amounts to only around 1 1/2 turns on my regular valve. I'll get 12.5 gallons from 140 to boiling in 30 mins or so.
Best of luck,
Jaz
hamiltont
Well-Known Member
Fun fact, keeping your propane tank in a bucket that has luke warm water helps to keep pressures even.
I have a small metal forge that likes to eat up the gas. When your tank is getting iced your pressure is severely effected.
I have a small metal forge that likes to eat up the gas. When your tank is getting iced your pressure is severely effected.
Wow, I don't know how you go through so much propane. I've gone through 2 brew in a bag batches with my 40qt pot, plus an initial paint burnoff and 15 minute boil on the new aluminum pot when I bought the whole setup, and this was a 20lb tank I used in the second half of the summer, at least 2-3 times a week to cook dinner on the grill, and I have a feeling I still could get another batch out of the tank--I'll find out tomorrow when I brew my next batch, but there is plenty of weight left to the tank. So one 20lb tank would probably get me 4-5 batches easily which is ideally $3-$4 worth of propane per batch based on the cost of refilling the tank which I get done at some RV place nearby that refills over switching out tanks.
so you went from bayou to blichman?
Gas usage is dependent on how efficiently the heat gets into the wort. Simple things like wind and pot shape can have a profound effect. Although I'm not a flame expert, I believe adjusting your air/gas ratio to get the perfect flame (blue? yellow?) also can have an effect on efficiency.
Golddiggie
Well-Known Member
Yup... Now the KAB4 is sitting in the corner, feeling unused (which it is)... I might have a buyer for it though (local) so it could be getting some attention soon.
I had the KAB4 adjusted to burn properly, same as with the Blichmann. The Blichmann burner produces smaller flame jets but gets the wort up to a boil faster. I also get the mash strike water up to temperature faster. I can also get 8+ gallons of wort to a boil faster than my brew-buddy can get ~7 gallons of wort to a boil with his Bayou burner (square stand, smaller burner element, not sure which model). I've been using my 10 gallon BoilerMaker kettle so far. Batch after this weekend I'll be using my new keggle... Will see how it gets about 10 gallons up to a boil then. :rockin:
starrfish
Well-Known Member
I have a bayou classic square-14, and a wind screen helps a lot. (on my second aluminum turkey pan wind screen in 4 batches, looking for the bulk store coffee can, or other large can that is more durable.
Also I crank up heat as I start to run from mash tun, seems to get to a boil faster since heat is applied as brew pot is filling.
Air ratio adjustment is fussy on the bayou classic 14, but when you find the sweet spot you'll know. I do 6.5 to 7 gallon boils for a 5.5-6 gallon to fermenter.
I can get almost 3 batches out of a standard tank refilled locally (ace hardware, but an exchange off the shelf will usually not make it through the third batch... known short fills)
Also I crank up heat as I start to run from mash tun, seems to get to a boil faster since heat is applied as brew pot is filling.
Air ratio adjustment is fussy on the bayou classic 14, but when you find the sweet spot you'll know. I do 6.5 to 7 gallon boils for a 5.5-6 gallon to fermenter.
I can get almost 3 batches out of a standard tank refilled locally (ace hardware, but an exchange off the shelf will usually not make it through the third batch... known short fills)
Don't forget to use your lid.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
I would only use a lid to get stuff up to boil, then remove. you want to boil off the diacetyl compounds
sudsmcgee
Well-Known Member
I use a Bayou SQ014 with a wind screen and can bring 10 gals to boil in 35-45 minutes depending upon the starting water temp. I get 3-4 10 gal batches out of a 20 lb tank too.
Make sure you use full power when heating the water up, but use the minimal amount of gas to keep a rolling boil.
Make sure you use full power when heating the water up, but use the minimal amount of gas to keep a rolling boil.
starrfish
Well-Known Member
Have the same burner with homebrewed wind screen, just wish the adjustments where tighter.
40 min to strike temp and 20 mins to boil with this (8 gallon boil).
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...play?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=100000 btu&storeId=10051
rico567
Well-Known Member
This much propane for a single boil seems excessive......but then there are so many variables. I try to employ logistics to reduce the amount of expensive propane (the kind most of us buy in 20# cylinders) used.
1. What pot is being used? I use a 30 qt. pot, but it's insulated with automotive firewall insulation. This significantly increases its ability to hold heat, so it comes to a boil faster. I originally insulated the pot so that it would come to a boil at all on the cooktop indoors when I was doing extract.
2. Is the burner matched to the pot? I use the Bayou Classic SP-10, which seems a good match for this pot.
3. What is the starting temperature for the water? I do my preheat water in the morning on the kitchen cooktop, so I'm using much cheaper propane from our 1K gal. bulk tank. It takes me 30 - 35 min. to take 3 gal. preheat water from room temperature to 170F preheat temp (and this is with a pretty feeble 8.5 K BTU cooktop burner).
4. What temperature is the boil water when starting to heat over the outdoor burner? I take the 3 gallons of preheat water (by then 145-147F) and dump it in the boil pot and start heating. I add 2-3 gallons that has been heating indoors and in only a few minutes I'm up to my strike temperature. I then mash in.
5. At the end of the mash, I lauter directly into the boil pot. When it's got some wort in it, I start the burner, by the time I'm done sparging (I do a single batch sparge), the boil pot is within 10-15 degrees of boiling. Elapsed time from beginning lautering to boil @ 40 min.
These times are accurate, because I've used this method for several years now on 30-40 batches of beer. Doing it this way, I can easily get 5 batches out of a 20# tank.
NB: Would I like to be brewing electric? Well, yeah. Am I willing to make the up-front investment to do that? Not yet......
1. What pot is being used? I use a 30 qt. pot, but it's insulated with automotive firewall insulation. This significantly increases its ability to hold heat, so it comes to a boil faster. I originally insulated the pot so that it would come to a boil at all on the cooktop indoors when I was doing extract.
2. Is the burner matched to the pot? I use the Bayou Classic SP-10, which seems a good match for this pot.
3. What is the starting temperature for the water? I do my preheat water in the morning on the kitchen cooktop, so I'm using much cheaper propane from our 1K gal. bulk tank. It takes me 30 - 35 min. to take 3 gal. preheat water from room temperature to 170F preheat temp (and this is with a pretty feeble 8.5 K BTU cooktop burner).
4. What temperature is the boil water when starting to heat over the outdoor burner? I take the 3 gallons of preheat water (by then 145-147F) and dump it in the boil pot and start heating. I add 2-3 gallons that has been heating indoors and in only a few minutes I'm up to my strike temperature. I then mash in.
5. At the end of the mash, I lauter directly into the boil pot. When it's got some wort in it, I start the burner, by the time I'm done sparging (I do a single batch sparge), the boil pot is within 10-15 degrees of boiling. Elapsed time from beginning lautering to boil @ 40 min.
These times are accurate, because I've used this method for several years now on 30-40 batches of beer. Doing it this way, I can easily get 5 batches out of a 20# tank.
NB: Would I like to be brewing electric? Well, yeah. Am I willing to make the up-front investment to do that? Not yet......
I think you are right. I burn wide open at the start where its a blue/yellow/orange flame as that gets 8 gallons boiling in about 15 minutes, then I turn it way back to just a small blue flame as that is good enough to keep a rolling boil.
I use the Bayou Classic SQ14, it doesn't have a good windscreen, but I use it inside a shed and just keep the garage door open so there is plenty of air movement but no direct wind on the burner. I was able to get a 4th batch out of the tank yesterday afternoon, and then my brother in law brought over a turkey fryer pot with oil and we fried potato, chicken, and spring rolls for about an hour, and just as we were doing the last batch of fries, the burner cut out and I was out of gas...so I am impressed with the efficiency of gas.
