Problems with WLP500 Trappist Ale?

[Alex Kirk]

Been successfully brewing a Belgian Trippel recipe for a while now with Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity, and after a recent experiment with WLP545 Belgian Strong produced a completely distinct beer from the same wort recipe, I've decided to go out and try as many Belgian ale yeasts as I can find that would be appropriate for the style, to see which one does what in an otherwise mostly controlled environment.

Since I had picked up the WLP500 Monastery Ale back in early January, and the pack showed as having expired in mid-January, I figured I'd make a starter to get it up to par - the WLP545 had expired a month before I used it, but with a 24 hour starter it gave me 85% attenuation and great flavors to boot. The morning after having set that up, however, I had not a bubble in my starter jug, and I figured I'd either got a bad batch, or dumped it too hot (I had 3-year-old help when pitching the starter, and I realized too late that I'd not actually put a thermometer in, just felt the heat of the jug).

I brewed the wort that day (Sunday) anyway, and just kept it sealed in my bucket/airlock setup that evening. LHBS opened for business on Monday, and I picked up two packs of the WLP500 that were ~3 months away from listed expiration - the gentleman helping me suggested that'd be faster than doing a starter, and more pure anyway, before only charging me for one. Drove 30 minutes home with them unrefrigerated, let them sit at a room temperature of ~66 for another 45 minutes, and happily pitched my 1.090 SG, ~72 degree batch (different end of the house), same as I've been doing with the other yeast for a while now to good results. This was 1:00 p.m.

Tuesday at 7:00 a.m. I came to check fermentation, and saw no airlock bubbling. Undeterred, I figured I'd take a quick peek, see a bunch of bubbles, and relax. Instead I saw not a single bubble, no signs of fermentation at all.

Is this particular yeast known for being slow to start? The starter jug never did develop any activity, even 50+ hours along, so I'm pretty sure that pouch was dead. Two more pouches straight from the LHBS (that does a lot of yeast business and keeps their stuff fresh) shouldn't be duds, either. I'm at a loss for what could be going on here.

 

[cladinshadows]

Been successfully brewing a Belgian Trippel recipe for a while now with Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity, and after a recent experiment with WLP545 Belgian Strong produced a completely distinct beer from the same wort recipe, I've decided to go out and try as many Belgian ale yeasts as I can find that would be appropriate for the style, to see which one does what in an otherwise mostly controlled environment.

Since I had picked up the WLP500 Monastery Ale back in early January, and the pack showed as having expired in mid-January, I figured I'd make a starter to get it up to par - the WLP545 had expired a month before I used it, but with a 24 hour starter it gave me 85% attenuation and great flavors to boot. The morning after having set that up, however, I had not a bubble in my starter jug, and I figured I'd either got a bad batch, or dumped it too hot (I had 3-year-old help when pitching the starter, and I realized too late that I'd not actually put a thermometer in, just felt the heat of the jug).

I brewed the wort that day (Sunday) anyway, and just kept it sealed in my bucket/airlock setup that evening. LHBS opened for business on Monday, and I picked up two packs of the WLP500 that were ~3 months away from listed expiration - the gentleman helping me suggested that'd be faster than doing a starter, and more pure anyway, before only charging me for one. Drove 30 minutes home with them unrefrigerated, let them sit at a room temperature of ~66 for another 45 minutes, and happily pitched my 1.090 SG, ~72 degree batch (different end of the house), same as I've been doing with the other yeast for a while now to good results. This was 1:00 p.m.

Tuesday at 7:00 a.m. I came to check fermentation, and saw no airlock bubbling. Undeterred, I figured I'd take a quick peek, see a bunch of bubbles, and relax. Instead I saw not a single bubble, no signs of fermentation at all.

Is this particular yeast known for being slow to start? The starter jug never did develop any activity, even 50+ hours along, so I'm pretty sure that pouch was dead. Two more pouches straight from the LHBS (that does a lot of yeast business and keeps their stuff fresh) shouldn't be duds, either. I'm at a loss for what could be going on here.

This yeast is not a notably slow starter. I would not expect to see activity after (it sounds like) ~12 hours in a 1.090 beer that was pitched without a starter. Even though you pitched two packs, the yeast still takes a bit longer to "wake up" than if it has come from a recent starter. This is particularly true in a very high gravity wort such as this one. I bet you'll see activity soon, but I don't think you should be surprised if it takes at least 24-36 hours. I don't see any mention of oxygen in your process above, so it could be even longer than that. If you aren't oxygenating your wort then you were relying even more on the benefits of a starter than you may have realized. Best of luck on this one.

 

[Pappers_]

Two packets for a 1.090 beer is underpitched, perhaps, and the yeast are gathering their strength, reproducing, etc. Take a look at mrmalty.com to see what Jamil suggests for pitching. But that might be an explanation for the lag time.

 

[Alex Kirk]

I'll give it a bit longer before I go out and get any more yeast, I suppose - I'm just surprised given previous observation of the WY3787 in largely identical wort, which I've seen have at least a small krausen on top after the ~18 hours it had been between pitching and observation of the WL500 here, without doing any kind of starter on a single pack of the WY3787. FWIW, no oxygenation in any of my batches to date, that's equipment I haven't wanted to spend on just yet.

Though that leads to a follow-up question: given what was a well-sanitized, airlocked bucket that's had only one opening to pitch yeast so far - if I get to 36 hours since pitching my WL500, and then do a 24-hour starter of the next yeast, am I in risky territory for infection? Or should I be able to keep the wort locked up for a few days at room temperature while I sort this all out?

 

[brownni5]

I bet it'll go without anything else. Yup, you probably underpitched, and since WLP 500 is reportedly the Chimay strain, and thus the "same" as Wyeast 1218, a quick check of the Wyeast website does indeed list it as a slow starter. All this with the admission that I've never used any Chimay derivative, and so have no first hand knowledge.

You've got one thing right - 545 produces a different beer than 3787 - I did the same thing a year or so ago and found the same thing. I'm a fan of both, but have a preference for 545 in dark worts.

 

[Calder]

3 different packs of yeast .... you have yeast in there and it is going to go. Assuming the first was a dudd, pitching 2 packs is way under-pitching for a 1.090 wort, so it will take a while.

I guess you are now at 35 hours. This is where I would have guessed it to start, but the high gravity wort may delay it longer. I bet it is going by morning.

FYI, it is recommended to pitch Belgian's low (low pitch rate) to bring out more of the yeast flavors, so while you are worried right now, you may be producing a great beer with this delay.

3 packs - it is going to work. RDWHAHB

 

[Big Monk]

I bet it'll go without anything else. Yup, you probably underpitched, and since WLP 500 is reportedly the Chimay strain, and thus the "same" as Wyeast 1218, a quick check of the Wyeast website does indeed list it as a slow starter. All this with the admission that I've never used any Chimay derivative, and so have no first hand knowledge.

You've got one thing right - 545 produces a different beer than 3787 - I did the same thing a year or so ago and found the same thing. I'm a fan of both, but have a preference for 545 in dark worts.

WY1214 = WLP500

I’ve never had such a long lag with 1214.

 

[Alex Kirk]

You guys were spot-on here - I checked this morning at 6:30, and the airlock was happily bubbling away! If it really is anything close to Chimay, I'll just know that quality is worth the wait when using this yeast.

 

[brownni5]

WY1214 = WLP500

I’ve never had such a long lag with 1214.

I was close! Just reporting what is listed...