Primary to Secondary Timing?

[sremed60]

Is it possible to move from primary to secondary too soon?

I brewed a Belgian Tripel 6 days ago. My original plan was to let it sit in primary for 6 days and then rack it to secondary. I had major activity in the airlock 3 hours after pitching the starter, and I had my pitch rate calculated toward the low end. It's been in the bucket bubbling away for 6 days now at 67˚. Yesterday, (Day 5), the bubbling slowed to about one bubble every 10 seconds so I allowed the temp to ramp up naturally to 72˚.

Today is Day 6. I just checked it when I woke up - it's at 70˚ and still one bubble every 10 seconds or so.

So should I pop it open, take a reading and rack it if the FG is close? Or just leave it alone for a few more days? It's in a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket and I'll be racking it to a 5 gallon glass carboy for 2 weeks.

I'm fanatical about not getting an infected beer so I don't want to pop the cover off this thing until I'm ready to transfer it.

 

[Esiole]

If it were me, I would leave it for another week at least. The yeast can still be fermenting away even if you don't see activity in the airlock. If you transfer before the yeast are done, it could take that much longer to reach FG.

If you are so worried about infection, why transfer to secondary at all? Are you going to be bulk conditioning for an extended time or aging on an adjunct? If not, or you aren't planning on aging/conditioning for more than a month, I would just leave in the bucket for another, then bottle/keg, then you always have the option to let it condition once you've packaged your beer

 

[JohnnyBrewGood]

If it were me, I would leave it for another week at least. The yeast can still be fermenting away even if you don't see activity in the airlock. If you transfer before the yeast are done, it could take that much longer to reach FG.

If you are so worried about infection, why transfer to secondary at all? Are you going to be bulk conditioning for an extended time or aging on an adjunct? If not, or you aren't planning on aging/conditioning for more than a month, I would just leave in the bucket for another, then bottle/keg, then you always have the option to let it condition once you've packaged your beer

What he said. Secondary for a reason, not because it says so in generic instructions.

Bubbles mean very little, if anything. I have beer "off gas" that had been at FG for days.

 

[TurnipGreen]

Same as these guys.

If you are really concerned about infection go ahead and leave it I the primary for whole time. If you are packaging when you hit your FG and not bulk aging at all you'll be fine leaving it in the primary and that's one less chance for infection.

That being said, when I use a secondary, I try to do it before fermentation is 100% done so there is plenty of C02 I the carboy.

 

[sremed60]

My original schedule was 6 days in primary, 14 days in secondary and 30 days bottle conditioning (aging). It's a Belgian Tripel I'm doing that is kind of a conglomeration of books I've read, (Hieronymus, Palmer, etc), as well as other tripel recipes I've seen and tips I got from youtube vids. So I'm not following any "instructions" other than the Beersmith recipe I created, (and it's subject to change).

My reasons for going with a secondary are:
(1) I wanted it to ferment for at least 3 weeks but didn't want it sitting on the trub for more than 6 days, (10 max). The OG was 1.072
(2) My goal is to get as many flavors and as much complexity as I can with only a couple of malts and some hops. I didn't add any spices or flavoring adjuncts.
(3) I want the beer as light in color as I can get it, and while I don't want it to look crystal clear like a Budweiser, I do want the little bit of clarification I can get out of secondary.
(4) And finally, I've never done a secondary fermentation. I've always gone from primary to bottle - so if for no other reason I just wanted to do it to satisfy my own curiosity.

Palmer says that racking to secondary too soon can result in an incomplete fermentation, but in that same paragraph he also says that ales ferment for 2-6 days. I realize the bubbles in the airlock don't have much to do with fermentation. I am concerned with sanitation, but then I've never heard a home brewer say "I'm really not too concerned with sanitation." I understand that every time I open the fermenter up or stick anything in the beer I am risking contamination. So I guess that was my question. I don't want to be popping this thing open every other day taking a bunch of hydrometer readings if I don't absolutely have to.

 

[m00ps]

My original schedule was 6 days in primary, 14 days in secondary and 30 days bottle conditioning (aging). It's a Belgian Tripel I'm doing that is kind of a conglomeration of books I've read, (Hieronymus, Palmer, etc), as well as other tripel recipes I've seen and tips I got from youtube vids. So I'm not following any "instructions" other than the Beersmith recipe I created, (and it's subject to change).

My reasons for going with a secondary are:
(1) I wanted it to ferment for at least 3 weeks but didn't want it sitting on the trub for more than 6 days, (10 max). The OG was 1.072
(2) My goal is to get as many flavors and as much complexity as I can with only a couple of malts and some hops. I didn't add any spices or flavoring adjuncts.
(3) I want the beer as light in color as I can get it, and while I don't want it to look crystal clear like a Budweiser, I do want the little bit of clarification I can get out of secondary.
(4) And finally, I've never done a secondary fermentation. I've always gone from primary to bottle - so if for no other reason I just wanted to do it to satisfy my own curiosity.

Palmer says that racking to secondary too soon can result in an incomplete fermentation, but in that same paragraph he also says that ales ferment for 2-6 days. I realize the bubbles in the airlock don't have much to do with fermentation. I am concerned with sanitation, but then I've never heard a home brewer say "I'm really not too concerned with sanitation." I understand that every time I open the fermenter up or stick anything in the beer I am risking contamination. So I guess that was my question. I don't want to be popping this thing open every other day taking a bunch of hydrometer readings if I don't absolutely have to.

(1) Sitting on the trub for +10days isnt going to do anything. You can go months without issue
(2) i do not see what this has to do with a secondary
(3) i do not see what this has to do with a secondary
(4) curiosity isnt a great reason for exposing your beer to oxygen and possible contamination

Just let it ride in ther primary. The yeast will settle either way

 

[sremed60]

Thanks everyone.

 

[brewcat]

I've had beers sit in the primary for as long as a month.

When I did use a secondary I would usually transfer at two weeks. I haven't noticed that secondary clarity is any better than those extra weeks sitting in the primary. Maybe less yeast in bottles...maybe.

Take a hydrometer sample. That's really the only way to tell. You want to be at FG before going to the secondary.

 

[sremed60]

Yeah. I always feel silly after asking a question on here. No matter what the question is, 50% of the home brewing community swears up and down "A" is the correct and ONLY way to do it and 50% believe with all their hearts that "B" is the correct and ONLY way to do things. I've only been doing this for less than a year. I read a book that says one thing, then I read comments on forums like this where half the people agree with that author and half disagree. Then I go into the LHBS and the guy behind the counter tells me "Don't listen to any of those guys, here's the RIGHT answer."

I'm getting the impression there is no right answers. The guys who say "NEVER, EVER, under any circumstances, allow beer to sit in primary for more than 10 days are ABSOLUTELY right. And those who say you can leave it in there for months are ABSOLUTELY right.

Glad I asked before I just jumped in and did something stupid. HA HA HA.

Cheers guys - it's all good. If it's drinkable in the end - everything else is just noise.

 

[Esiole]

If it's drinkable in the end - everything else is just noise.

And that my friend, is what makes your beer, YOUR beer.

 

[lowtones84]

If you want to secondary, go for it. Tripels do well with bulk aging (though I've brewed precisely two) and secondary is a good place for that. You certainly could go straight from primary to bottling bucket/kegging, but if you have good racking practices a secondary shouldn't introduce any oxygen or infection.

Either way, 10 days in the primary is certainly not going to hurt. I would probably wait until 10-14 to rack, personally. None of the advice I've seen here is bad advice, but it's your beer, and if you want to use a secondary, use it, but use it in an informed manner

 

[user 4295]

Oxygen free transfer to secondary that has been pre-purged of oxygen using the co2 produced during the primary rocks!

If I had to rack in a more traditional way, I probably wouldn't secondary. Using Better-Bottles makes this very convenient. I secondary everything, except hefe's. To each his own.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1455594365.339268.jpg

 

[JohnnyBrewGood]

Thanks everyone.

Just do what I do, ask questions, get 15 different answers, ignore them all and do want you wanted to do in the first place.

 

[eadavis80]

Yeah, asking advice on brewing is like asking advice on the golf course - people will tell you what works for them. You will have to figure out by your own experience what works for you. Everyone is just trying to help.

 

[xxRandomHeroxx]

I have a question I'm doin my first all grain and the first day the airlock was bubbling but now it hasn't down anything

 

[sremed60]

Just do what I do, ask questions, get 15 different answers, ignore them all and do want you wanted to do in the first place.

Ha ha ha. If I was going to ignore all the answers I probably would save myself some aggravation and just not ask the question. I do what I want to do regardless, but at the same time there's no sense reinventing the wheel all the time. Asking questions is one way learn this stuff.

A lot of this stuff is subjective and just a matter of personal preference. But a lot is objective. Some things have a definitive, right or wrong answer, based in fact, and are not just personal preference. But since there's nothing that requires a person to actually know what their talking about before they put it out on the WWW, we have to sift through the mountains of opinions and personal preferences to try and find the occasional fact buried beneath it all.

Reason and logic tells me that putting 5 gallons of beer in a 6.5 gallon plastic bucket with 25% headroom is not the same as putting 5 gallons of beer in a 5 gallon glass carboy with minimal headroom. I would consider that a fact. Reason also tells me that beer that sits on an inch of trub and dead yeast in a plastic bucket with 25% headroom for a month, (or more), is almost definitely going to react and age differently than beer that has had most of that trub and dead yeast removed and sits in a glass container with less minimum headroom. I don't know what the differences are... I just know there has to be some. Otherwise everyone would go from the kettle, to a plastic bucket for 3 days, into a bottle or keg for 2 weeks, and voilà . . . . BEER!

There is the possibility that the effects of a 5 gallon glass carboy vs a 6.5 gallon plastic, permeable bucket are so minimal that we humans are incapable of detecting them through the five senses. But I'm hesitant to say that at the risk of offending the thousands of beer reviewers on BA and youtube who are able to detect the slightest trace of Kenyan grown passion fruit with a hint of Captain Black's Cherry pipe tobacco in the nose, (the 2013 crop, not the 2014).

 

[Yeastieboy]

I've got an ESB sitting in the primary going on three weeks. I'm not concerned about it. There's no room in my kegs and I'd rather it sit in the primary than rack it to a secondary and introduce extra O2.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

Beer instructions often warn of off flavors unless you rack the beer as soon as fermentation ends. This is outdated information. There are some reasons to secondary. Fear of ruining the beer by leaving it on the yeast for a few weeks is not one of them. Also there is an increase risk of oxidation and infection by moving it to secondary. I wish this "controversy" would just die.

 

[Yeastieboy]

Amen. Die already.