Potential Water Pitfalls in All Grain Brewing

[toxdoc49]

I appreciate the time everyone took to address my questions. Very helpful advice!

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

I just bought property with a well that hasn't been used for years. What has to be done to get an accurate test sample for the well?

We always advise folks NOT to buy residential property that has a well without making the deal contingent up the well producing suitable drinking water. How would you know?
http://www.buckeyehydro.com/drinking-water-test/

 

[toxdoc49]

That part is true, you have to know that the well is producing water. Assuming it is, typically a plumber will get it up and running and shock it with chlorine, then you will run all the faucets for a time to clean out the pipes. Once the chlorine has gone from the system you would test the water just like any other supply. You can test it at the tap and also from an outside faucet or hydrant if you have one.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, said well might not be the sole potable water source on said property...

Cheers!

 

[toxdoc49]

But the water can be potentially good. Mine is unfortunately hard water, so I have a softener syatem, but that makes it difficult to use for brewing. I can bypass the system and have the well water itself tested and may be able to use that, at least get the composition of minerals in the water

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

And if its not good, then run the softened water through an RO.

 

[toxdoc49]

I also have an RO system, just not set up for large volumes.

 

[Bobby_M]

I also have an RO system, just not set up for large volumes.

That can be remedied with a bucket and a float valve. 20 bucks max.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

That can be remedied with a bucket and a float valve. 20 bucks max.

And an Auto shut off valve.

I also have an RO system, just not set up for large volumes.

Remember that any membrane 24 gpd thru 200 gpd with fit in a standard residential housing - so you can speed your system up if desired.

 

[ajdelange]

A couple of tips:

If a softener is involved be sure to test the water at the input to the softener. It is trivial to compute the ion content of the water at the output of a softener from the input values but not the other way around.

When testing a well be sure to get the bacteriological test done (or do it yourself). The county, city, state or your insurance company may have something to say about this.

[Edit: There used to be instructions here for shocking your well yourself but as there was potential for personal injury (or in extreme cases death) if not done right I thought I'd better remove them. Call a plumber]

 

[toxdoc49]

I ended up brewing an all grain recipe from NB (German alt). I violated a few rules here (used pH test strips for one). The grain had some dark malts in it so the pH was decreased and i did not add anything (I buy spring water, I have not had my well water tested but I know it is hard water so I don't use it). I usually only learn by trial and error and do know the advice on this site is good. Besides probably not using enough sparge water I came close to the stated OG; I will just have to see how it turned out. Yes I dove right in with multi-step infusion and full 5 gallon boil!

 

[MT's AZ Ale Haus]

What would be the harm in using RO water with no additives.
Will it effect the wort tast or will it reduce efficiency?

 

[ajdelange]

You will find the beer thin in body and flavor from lower than desirable chloride content. I you like the effects of sulfate on hops bitterness perception and with respect to dry finish you will find those attributes missing. You will not obtain the benefits of calcium WRT enzyme protection, runoff clarity, oxalate precipitation etc.

 

[mabrungard]

What would be the harm in using RO water with no additives.
Will it effect the wort tast or will it reduce efficiency?

AJ's comments are valid. However, it won't necessarily thin the body. The flavor can be duller and disinteresting with no mineralization, but that could be OK in some styles...and a real detriment in others. RO with minor additions of calcium chloride and/or gypsum is an easy way to avoid dullness.

 

[ajdelange]

There may be cases where chloride content is decoupled from body/fullness (though I can't think of one) so I'll change my statement to "You will probably find the beer thin in body and flavor..." I do remember an experiment I did with a series of Kölsch brews in which I wanted to see "how low can you go" on the CaCl2. Below a certain level the thinning effect was so dramatic that perhaps it incorrectly set into my mind this notion that chloride and body are related. OTOH it doesn't take one long to find statements like this

"The chloride ion is believed to promote a palate fullness, sweetness, or mellowness within the flavor profile of beer."

in articles backed up by references like

Bernstein, Leo, and Willox, I. C. “Water.” In The practical brewer, ed. Harold M. Broderick, 13–20. Madison, WI: Master Brewers Association of the Americas, 1977.

Kerwin, Larry. “Water.” In MBAA practical handbook for the specialty brewer, volume 1: Raw materials and brewhouse operations, ed. Karl Ockert, 7–12. Madison, WI: Master Brewers Association of the Americas, 2006.

Kunze, Wolfgang. “Raw materials.” In Technology brewing and malting, 2nd ed., 69–73. Berlin: VLB Berlin, 1999.

It does say "believed to". I'm a believer.

Others can find out whether they are believers or not with some simple taste tests with a beer made with low chloride water (e.g. PU) and a salt shaker.

Such discussions usually prompt me to mention that I have been around so long ("how low can you go" is a clue) that I can remember when salt shakers were set along the bar and the guys that I, at that time, considered to be old timers, would regularly dump it into their beer.

 

[Todd Terczynski]

I was told by many that you should mix RO water with regular water 50/50 so you still had necessary Ca and Magnesium for hardness and RO water helps with pH. Makes a project balance. I personally haven’t seen a noticeable difference in taste either way

 

[Jag75]

I was told by many that you should mix RO water with regular water 50/50 so you still had necessary Ca and Magnesium for hardness and RO water helps with pH. Makes a project balance. I personally haven’t seen a noticeable difference in taste either way

Think it depends on your water report like AJ said .

 

[BrewinInPA]

Any problem with using a little lemon juice to adjust mash pH? I almost always have fresh lemons on hand for cocktails, and I doubt the small amount needed would affect the beer's flavor too much.

 

[mabrungard]

Any problem with using a little lemon juice to adjust mash pH? I almost always have fresh lemons on hand for cocktails, and I doubt the small amount needed would affect the beer's flavor too much.

Citric acid (in lemon juice) has a low taste threshold and you would likely taste it in your beer. If you like lemony beers, give it a go. I find that most beer drinkers prefer 'beer' flavored beers.

 

[madscientist451]

I don't brew on a regular basis, sometimes I brew 4 times a month, sometimes I don't brew anything for 4-6 months. (cider and wine season + hot summer months), so I never got a PH meter because you're supposed to keep the probe/sensor in a solution and I figure I'll forget about it, let it dry out and ruin it. So I just brew with tap water and use 50/50 tap/distilled for lagers. All the beer gets consumed and I haven't heard any complaints, but is there a way an occasional brewer can use a PH meter without worrying about ruining it?

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

is there a way an occasional brewer can use a PH meter without worrying about ruining it?

After cleaning it put the meter in a small glass with two inches of storage solution, then seal the opening tight with plastic wrap and small elastic bands. You will never need to worry about the probe drying out. It is a good practice to recalibrate pH meters at least once or every month or two though.

 

[couchsending]

Any problem with using a little lemon juice to adjust mash pH? I almost always have fresh lemons on hand for cocktails, and I doubt the small amount needed would affect the beer's flavor too much.

Depends on the beer... Rowley Farmhouse used lemons in the mash for pH adjustment and won gold at GABF for Berliner or Gose with this process...

 

[couchsending]

After cleaning it put the meter in a small glass with two inches of storage solution, then seal the opening tight with plastic wrap and small elastic bands. You will never need to worry about the probe drying out. It is a good practice to recalibrate pH meters at least once or every month or two though.

Milwaukee MW102. Has a nice little container that seals around the probe. Would take a really long time for it to dry out.

 

[mabrungard]

Milwaukee MW102. Has a nice little container that seals around the probe. Would take a really long time for it to dry out.

Agreed! I replaced the probe on my MW101 a couple of years ago and the new probe does have a very nice 'rigid condom' fitting that keeps the probe wet. I just checked the probe after about 6 months of inactivity and its still full of storage solution. More regular use will have no problem. Thanks to Milwaukee for configuring a durable system.

 

[Buckeye_Hydro]

Our Milwaukee MW102 is on sale to HBT peeps only. Use coupon code HBT MW102 for $15 off.

Russ

 

[RufusBrewer]

If you find a recipe that includes water treatment, ignore it, unless you know you are starting with the same water source. The recipe author's source water profile might be the same or different from your source water profile. If you match their treatment without verification, you are just guessing.

If the author uses distilled or reverse osmosis source and you are using the same, you can follow their recipe.

FWIW, For brewing purposes, I consider RO water and distilled water to be equal. If and when I trust water labeled RO is true RO.

However, you are strongly advised to run the treatment and recipe through a water calculator as a double check.

 

[earachemyeye69]

Been controlling my mash PH and getting 5.2-5.4 consistently but then read something on the internet that says I need to also adjust sparge water. I assumed the starch to sugar conversion was complete and didn’t need to worry about it. My fermentation SG seems to finish higher than I’d like.
Possible cause or am I just crazy?

 

[doug293cz]

Been controlling my mash PH and getting 5.2-5.4 consistently but then read something on the internet that says I need to also adjust sparge water. I assumed the starch to sugar conversion was complete and didn’t need to worry about it. My fermentation SG seems to finish higher than I’d like.
Possible cause or am I just crazy?

The reason for acidifying the sparge water is to prevent alkalinity in the sparge water from raising the grain bed pH above about 6, which in combination with high temps can extract tannins and silicates. RO or distilled water does not need acidification for sparging, as it has no alkalinity, so cannot raise the pH during sparging.

Brew on

 

[RM-MN]

The reason for acidifying the sparge water is to prevent alkalinity in the sparge water from raising the grain bed pH above about 6, which in combination with high temps can extract tannins and silicates. RO or distilled water does not need acidification for sparging, as it has no alkalinity, so cannot raise the pH during sparging.

Brew on

It does take a high temperature of sparge water to extract meaningful tannins so sparge with cool water and you avoid that problem. Cool water will extract nearly the same sugars from the mash as hot water.

 

[jerrylotto]

Admittedly I only scanned this thread but I'm really surprised that I did not see any mention of Campden (potassium or sodium metabisulfite) to oxidize free chlorine and chloramines to chloride ion. If you use tap water from any municipal source, you are going to find some there as a sterilization agent and it plays havoc with yeast. If you use distilled, RO or well water, you probably don't need to worry about this.

 

[Jag75]

For what it's worth I use Bru n water. I use RO water 100% on some brews or a dilution of tap and RO and the program always calls for treating my sparge water .

 

[day_trippr]

I do 100% RO and fly sparge and agree Bru'n Water still recommends adjustments for both strike and sparge liquors...

Cheers!

 

[mabrungard]

I do 100% RO and fly sparge and agree Bru'n Water still recommends adjustments for both strike and sparge liquors...

Cheers!

Treating both mashing and sparging water is the 'default' approach in Bru'n Water, but you can employ alternate approaches in which salt adjustments are added at other points in the brewing process. The one thing that should not be skipped, is that the alkalinity of both the mashing and sparging water MUST be adjusted to end up with a good brewing outcome. If you're starting with very low alkalinity water like RO or distilled, that need may be reduced.

 

[scogan]

While I agree with everything in the original post , if you dont get your pH spot on you dont get full extraction and miss the og by ,but probably but only a bit .
Obviously better to maximise your grains but a small loss might not have a massive impact on the final taste ???
Having written this I have just bought a pH meter and in 48 hrs my first ever assessment of mash ph will be done ,though i am going to add 2.5g of citric acid (its all I have on hand) even before I measure it based on my alkalinity .