Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[mac_1103]

“Range anxiety” is a problem with those who have no experience with these cars and are likely influenced by all the false or old information constantly thrown in their faces intentionally or through the grapevine.

This is certainly true for much of the country. Especially the northeast and the west coast. But I wonder if it isn't still a real thing in the mountain west for instance. How many superchargers are there in the wide open spaces of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas?

 

[sibelman]

How many superchargers are there in the wide open spaces of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas?

 

[Airborneguy]

This is certainly true for much of the country. Especially the northeast and the west coast. But I wonder if it isn't still a real thing in the mountain west for instance. How many superchargers are there in the wide open spaces of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas?

Enough for roadtrippers. I planned a trip to Montana this past September. Wouldn’t have had any issues but my father chickened out and demanded to fly.

 

[mac_1103]

What's the difference between orange and green?

 

[corkybstewart]

This is certainly true for much of the country. Especially the northeast and the west coast. But I wonder if it isn't still a real thing in the mountain west for instance. How many superchargers are there in the wide open spaces of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas?

There are 100 mile stretches in NM with no chargers at all.
In France there's a full rest area every 50 kilometers, with at least a dozen chargers. Even without the chargers I wish the USA had the same rest area situation as in France. There's a rest area every 20 kilometers, every other one will have at least a restaurant, gas station, convenience store, and many have motels-all without getting off the interstate(autoroute).

 

[Kent88]

I have mixed feelings about this, but I thought I would share it anyway. It could be a way to get fast level 2 chargers into more remote areas, but I just don't see ordinary rural homeowners doing it



I think the application that this makes sense in would be VRBO and Airbnb, and in odd places like when I used to live near a pro sport team venue that had a lot of modest, single family residences nearby who would basically rent their driveways for parking during home games.

I don't know, thoughts?

 

[Bilsch]

This is certainly true for much of the country. Especially the northeast and the west coast. But I wonder if it isn't still a real thing in the mountain west for instance. How many superchargers are there in the wide open spaces of Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas?

Up until a couple years ago not enough for us out here. Now though there are plenty of chargers even for early adopters with smaller batteries and less efficient motors. Tesla owners anyway.

 

[tracer bullet]

I wouldn't be surprised if people supposedly worried about range anxiety will move the goalposts and find another problem even if EV's are soon able to do 500 miles.

I can't complain about others too much, I just ordered a new Z4.

 

[sibelman]

the difference between orange and green?

Orange means DC fast charge. Others, mostly level 2, are green. This is from plugshare.com, the best known source for locating chargers across multiple "networks."

 

[Kent88]

I wouldn't be surprised if people supposedly worried about range anxiety will move the goalposts and find another problem even if EV's are soon able to do 500 miles.

Yup!

Even though that's 400mi, about 5hrs of driving at highway (80mph) speed, on an 80% charge. Nearly twice what I suggested was enough to go between bio stops. You could shave off 100mi from that 400mi for poor weather and still have a comfortable range, unless you always road trip alone, and either have the bladder of a long haul trucker, or have a very disgusting use for those empty beverage bottles (in which case you better be traveling solo).

There's someone in here from Iowa who popped up in '23 or '22, said that he needed certain EVs to meet certain criteria, which I pointed out either had been or was darn close to being met, never responded, but came back a few months later with a new requirement for charging speed. He was just one example of all the goalpost moving

 

[Bilsch]

Speaking of moved goal posts I feel bad for the people that bought hydrogen fuel cars hoping the infrastructure would improve. It was bad enough they had only 59 total stations in the US but Shell recently announced closing another 7 and pulling out of that business.

In 2014 had briefly considered a Mirai but was told it could be a while until H2 stations came to my state. Turns out it would have been a forever wait.

 

[whoaru99]

I wouldn't be surprised if people supposedly worried about range anxiety will move the goalposts and find another problem even if EV's are soon able to do 500 miles.

I can't complain about others too much, I just ordered a new Z4.

I drive a truck that can do 600+ mi on a single fill. There are still times when the tank gets low and next fill point concerns come to mind.

It happens regardless of fuel and regardless of range.

Piss poor planning or victim of circumstance, regardless, it happens.

 

[Bilsch]

Reading the interwebs one would get the impression every pickup truck driver takes their vehicle daily to the maximum extent of the range, nonstop cannonball run style. While also towing something heavy.

 

[Agent]

I drive a truck that can do 600+ mi on a single fill. There are still times when the tank gets low and next fill point concerns come to mind.

It happens regardless of fuel and regardless of range.

Piss poor planning or victim of circumstance, regardless, it happens.

Alternatively, I was issued a dodge truck that got maaaaaybe 12mpg on a 23 gallon tank. Almost got stranded in BFN Wyoming with that glorious POS.

 

[doug293cz]

Another (first for me) sighting in the wild. Kind of jarring to see that next to you.

Brew on

 

[whoaru99]

Reading the interwebs one would get the impression every pickup truck driver takes their vehicle daily to the maximum extent of the range, nonstop cannonball run style. While also towing something heavy.

Seems you have misunderstood my point, presuming that's sorta for me since I brought up a pickup with long range capability.

 

[Bilsch]

Seems you have misunderstood my point, presuming that's sorta for me since I brought up a pickup with long range capability.

Sorry if it was unclear but I wasn't referencing anything in your post. In fact I agree with everything you said. Just happened to be musing about how often I read the truck range thing around the web.

 

[sibelman]

sighting in the wild.

I live in the Portland OR metro area, where Teslas are common AF. So far, the only cybertruck I've seen is in the window of a showroom I drove by the other day. Not quite "in the wild."

 

[doug293cz]

I live in the Portland OR metro area, where Teslas are common AF. So far, the only cybertruck I've seen is in the window of a showroom I drove by the other day. Not quite "in the wild."

I'm in the Seattle area, and it seems like 1 in 10 cars is a Tesla. This Cyber Abomination was East bound in Kent on James St at the intersection with Central Ave.

Brew on

 

[AzOr]

I live in the Portland OR metro area, where Teslas are common AF. So far, the only cybertruck I've seen is in the window of a showroom I drove by the other day. Not quite "in the wild."

Ha. I just saw my first one today. It was parked near SW 2nd and Burnside. Something about the big slabs of stainless (or whatever it's made of) made the thing look huge. Much bigger than I expected.

 

[corkybstewart]

Ha. I just saw my first one today. It was parked near SW 2nd and Burnside. Something about the big slabs of stainless (or whatever it's made of) made the thing look huge. Much bigger than I expected.

What defines this as a truck? Does the back end open onto a pickup type bed?

 

[Airborneguy]

Reading the interwebs one would get the impression every pickup truck driver takes their vehicle daily to the maximum extent of the range, nonstop cannonball run style. While also towing something heavy.

It’s funny how we all know this exact line.

Don’t forget, “And what about 2am family emergencies in another time zone!”

 

[passedpawn]

What defines this as a truck? Does the back end open onto a pickup type bed?

I was wondering that EXACT thing yesterday.

 

[passedpawn]

I live in the Portland OR metro area, where Teslas are common AF. So far, the only cybertruck I've seen is in the window of a showroom I drove by the other day. Not quite "in the wild."

I passed one yesterday on local streets. Does not look any better in the wild.

 

[day_trippr]

As a "pickup" it's more like an El Camino wrt actual utility...

 

[passedpawn]

OK I see now. I suppose it's totally functional for most truck needs.

 

[day_trippr]

I might have missed this being posted already...

https://news.yahoo.com/volvo-landed-cheap-chinese-ev-100521299.html

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

On another forum, someone posted this:

I decided I had to respond...

Since the day you posted this, I've been thinking about responding... I can imagine what would happen if the world was primarily EV but we invented the ICE now.

First, let me set the stage. Because if we live in a BEV world, you have to essentially postulate that our existing infrastructure was in place to support EVs. Almost everyone would charge at home. Even in shared places like apartment/condo dwellings. It would become "table stakes" for rental properties to have charging. You would have a robust 3rd party charging network in cities and on interstates. Everyone would know where to charge and who had "the best rates", and that would cause charging to drive down profit above cost so public charging was only slightly more expensive than home charging unless you need a DC fast charger. And beyond that, the "important" part, everyone would be used to BEVs and so the idea of an ICEV would be foreign and new.

Can you imagine the complaints?

• What do you mean I can't charge at home overnight? I have to drive somewhere to get it ready? What if I can't find anyplace? (Remember there wouldn't be fueling stations on every corner if we've just invented ICEV). How will I find a fueling station? Is there an app for that?
• Wait, I have to put gas in my car? Gas, a flammable/explosive material? What happens if it ignites? What happens if my car starts on fire? I know there's a very low risk of batteries catching on fire, but it must be MUCH higher for these cars running on a flammable liquid!
• Ugh. If I really have to put fuel in, AND I have to find a fueling station, I want to do it as rarely as possible. I want a 30-gallon gas tank so I never have to worry about whether I'll have enough gas to get someplace, and I don't have drive all over town to fill it up very often!
• Man, these stupid ICEV engines have no low end torque! What a terrible driving experience! When I press the pedal, I want to GO. My BEV has instant torque.
• Why is it so LOUD?!?! I want to hear myself think, not listen to some engine running.
• Ew, what the heck is that smell coming out of the exhaust?! That's disgusting! It can-NOT be good for us.
• What's a "transmission"? Why isn't my acceleration smooth when it does this whole "changing gears" thing? And that sounds like a REALLY complicated mechanical thing--I'll be transmissions are going to break down all the time!
• I mean, I guess the fast "fueling" or whatever is great, but that's only important for people who are going on road trips, like, EVERY weekend. I haven't been to a public charger since that trip I took last summer, and is it REALLY that bad to wait 20-30 minutes and stretch my legs after 4 hours behind the wheel?

I mean, think it over. If we'd spent our entire lives living a BEV paradigm, and then some quirky billionaire tried to up-end it in the favor of the next big thing, "gas-powered vehicles!", do you really think it would be welcomed?

 

[Airborneguy]

You're a better man than I!

 

[day_trippr]

Taken with the "Volvo" story this can't be good...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Taken with the "Volvo" story this can't be good...

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/24/business/ford-earnings-ev-losses

These stories are completely misunderstood by most people.

When you start up a new business unit, you incur millions (maybe billions) of dollars worth of cost depending on what you're doing. If you're Ford and you're trying to expand into EVs, you need to assign engineers (scientists) to do R&D, product design, set up a supply chain for a bunch of components you've never bought, many layers of product quality & reliability validation, create production facilities, possibly incurring a lot of CapEx if it requires new machinery/etc to start things up, hiring and training workers, hire/deploy a marketing division, create and sell advertising, train your dealers, etc. You have to do ALL of this before a single car is delivered to a customer.

All that means is that when you're still in the volume ramp period, you're going to lose money as an organization, EVEN IF EVERY SINGLE CAR IS SOLD AT POSITIVE GROSS MARGIN, until the volume reaches a break-even point to sustain the business. So you can "make money" on every single individual car, but lose it as an overall business. And people do simple math and say you're losing $XX thousands of dollars on every car sold. No, you're losing that money whether you sell a car or not--the car sales help to start turning those losses into gains once the volume moves.

The correct way to phrase this is not that they're losing a certain amount of money per car sold. The correct way to phrase this is that they're not yet selling enough cars to fund the business. But that's a lot less sexy and clickbaity.

 

[mac_1103]

If you're Ford and you're trying to expand into EVs, you need to assign engineers (scientists) to do R&D, product design, set up a supply chain for a bunch of components you've never bought, many layers of product quality & reliability validation, create production facilities, possibly incurring a lot of CapEx if it requires new machinery/etc to start things up, hiring and training workers, hire/deploy a marketing division, create and sell advertising, train your dealers, etc. You have to do ALL of this before a single car is delivered to a customer.

It even says so in the article:

...the losses include hundreds of millions being spent on research and development of the next generation of EVs for Ford...
...The company said it is its “intention” to be have EV pricing cover the actual costs of building each EV, rather than covering all the research and development costs, within the next 12 months...

So the problem isn't just that these stories are completely misunderstood by most people, it's that they're completely misunderstood by the people who write them.

OTOH, this part really doesn't sound good:

...while Ford has removed about $5,000 in cost on each Mustang Mach-E, “revenue is dropping faster than we can take out the cost.”

 

[passedpawn]

These stories are completely misunderstood by most people.

not a good way to address people lol

 

[whoaru99]

But that's a lot less sexy and clickbaity.

Yet, the fact remains sales are not as expected so they are discounting, which makes it all that much worse.

It's already been quoted and requoted, “revenue is dropping faster than we can take out the cost.”. Ouch.

 

[whoaru99]

...