Please critique my recipie and help diagnose.

[BrewMasta]

Amount Name Type #
3 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 1
17 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2
1 lbs Caraamber (30.0 SRM) Grain 3
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4
1.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 60 min Hops 5
0.5 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 50 min Hops 6
1.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 15 min Hops 7
2.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15 min) Misc 8
2.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15 min) Misc 9
1.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 10 min Hops 10
1.5 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Boil 5 min Hops 11
2 pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast 12
2.0 oz Centennial [10.0%] - Dry Hop 7 days

I brewed this 10 gal. Batch as one of my first 10 gal. All grain brews, it was a Centennial Pale Ale attempt. I had some expert help on my first two batches, and they came out great, on this recipe I created it myself, and essentially brewed it myself as well. So here is the issue I had. Everything went as planned outside of adding almost 6x the yeast nutrient called for, as I misread the recipe and added two tablespoons, instead of two teaspoons. It fermented pretty quickly, and at a decent ale temp which never exceeded 70 degrees, when they hit 70 I promptly put the carboys in swamp coolers with wet shirts and a fan blowing on them, which quickly brings temps down a few degrees. My problem is with the aroma, which almost smells like the apple cider smell or something similar, and it carries over into flavor ever so slightly. It does have a nice centennial kick, although I think it needed more hops throughout the boil, and in dry hopping. I was feeling like American 2 row should have been used and that maybe the Marris Otter was not the right base grain to use, maybe it's the Vienna Malt, I don't know, or maybe it was the excessive yeast nutrient which perhapse caused an excessively quick fermentation? Any advice, suggestions, or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

 

[GrogNerd]

what was expected OG & FG and what was measured OG & FG? maybe you over-attenuated?

also, at what stage are you tasting? bottling/kegging or has it been in bottles/keg for long?

 

[chickypad]

The use of MO and vienna should not be the problem. How old is this beer? If it's cidery like green apple it may just need to condition. If it's cidery like sour/vinegary I would think more of infection. No idea what an overdose of yeast nutrient would do but I wouldn't think that would be an issue. What were your OG/FG/IBU's?

 

[BrewMasta]

@grog nerd, and chickeypad, I'm still somewhat confused over what attenuation really is, so if you could better explain that to me in layman terms if possible, and for the record this was my first brew that I was too intoxicated to to remember to take the OG, however I typically always hit my numbers very closely. I had a brew your own party that day and had four all grain set ups going on my property, so it's safe to say I was very distracted as the host. The OG was supposed to be 1.059, and FG is supposed to be 1.009. It's not really a Vinegar like cider smell, more like the green apple cider smell I think. I did notice when it the glass at tasting( from a force carbed keg.) that the longer it sits the smell fades somewhat, and I know there was no infection, as none presented. I was thinking it might just need some more aging as well, but of all my brews this is the first with this smell, I'm hoping it goes away after it ages a bit longer.

 

[twistr25]

Attenuation is how much of the sugars the yeast can eat up. I think for most strains it is 70-80% of the available sugars.

Here's the notes for the "green apple" fault
Make sure fermentation is vigorous using healthy yeast. Allow full attenuation. Leave beer on yeast longer. Oxygenate
wort fully. Try another yeast strain. Make sure sufficient yeast nutrients are available. Let beer age longer.

I would try the last suggestion first. Despite force carbing, it still can need a few weeks in the keg to properly condition.

 

[GrogNerd]

attenuation is the percent of sugar converted to alcohol and carbon dioxide by the yeast

estimated OG of 1.059 to estimated FG of 1.009 is 84.7% attenuation. normal range for WLP001 is 73-80%

 

[BrewMasta]

The beer fermented over two weeks, although I thought it was done after a few days, then it sat in secondary for a week dry hopping, then into the kegs for another two weeks before I even put the first keg on to force carbonate. The second keg will have aged well over 30 days by the time I put it up to force carbonate.

 

[twistr25]

Ferment temps? I still think the best bet is just to let it condition a bit longer

 

[BrewMasta]

@grog nerd, what does that mean for me, and my centennial pale ale if it over attenuated? What yeast would have been better for the beer?

 

[BrewMasta]

@ twister, the wort was chilled to 66 degrees, and I pitched at about that temp, fermentation began within 12 hours, and climbed to 70-72 degrees in day two of the fermentation, which is when I put the carboys in swamp coolers with wet T-shirts, and a fan, which brought temps done to about 68 for the remainder of the fermentation period.

 

[kombat]

"Green apple" usually indicates acetaldehyde, meaning the yeast haven't finished cleaning up after themselves.

Also, I think you added 2 tbsp too much yeast nutrient. That is, you don't need to add any. Save it for your yeast starters. All-grain worts already contain everything the yeast need for a healthy fermentation. Don't add any yeast nutrient to an all-grain wort.

 

[BrewMasta]

@kombat, I did hear that about the yeast nutrient after this brew and was told that it's really only needed in very high ABV beers, so I will be sure not to use it again. When you say the yeast haven't cleaned up after themselves yet are you indicating(as others have) that perhaps some more aging would be of benefit to the beer?

 

[GrogNerd]

over-attenuated just means the yeast worked a little harder than expected and you have a higher abv%

no big deal, just trying to help pinpoint the source of the cidery taste.

hopefully a little more time will help with the flavors

sounds like you got a handle on what went wrong, some tips on how to make your future batches better. now all you have to do is brew some more. the only way to get good at anything is PRACTICE!

so, practice making beer!

 

[kombat]

Yes, that's the conventional advice. In my experience, the few times it's revealed itself, additional aging helped a little, but the flavour was still there. Mine was a Bohemian Pilsener lager.

 

[BrewMasta]

Thanks GrogNerd, Chickypad, Kombat, And twister for your responses, input, and explanations, they are well recieved and appreciated.

 

[BrewMasta]

Thanks for your input Kombat, It's is still a very drinkable beer, I don't let such things deter me from drinking it, although in my next attempt at brewing this beer I may just try to do a 5gal batch, and switch up the base grains, and see how it comes out b4 moving forward with a 10 gal batch again.