plastic vs steel conical fermenter
- Thread starter insnekamkze86
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I keep the yeast in a sterile bottle 1L if i am brewing another batch with the same strain. I dump until it runs clear about a week after the pitch. Then when i keg i do the same thing open valve let it go clear then transfer.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. It looks like they've discontinued their racking arm, so I'll have to make up something on my own.
arturo7
Well-Known Member
Ya know, the whole idea of a racking arm in a conical confuses me. For taking samples OK, but for filling?
If the goal is to have an aerated wort, why not pour it in from the top? The wort splashes in and gets aerated in the process.
Am I missing something?
If the goal is to have an aerated wort, why not pour it in from the top? The wort splashes in and gets aerated in the process.
Am I missing something?
mikefromcu
Well-Known Member
Hey Arturo,
The racking arm is for filling - not the conical but the kegs. Your valve is above the yeast/break in the bottom of the cone, you can rack sediment free beer into the kegs and as you get towards the bottom, you rotate the racking tube south (down) until you just start picking up yeasties.
I haven't checked out the Frugal write up yet, but it sounds like there isn't a rotating racking solution on there. Anyone do this yet with success? I saw one Australian guys setup but it involved machining plastic parts on a lathe. Anything more off-the-shelf out there?
The racking arm is for filling - not the conical but the kegs. Your valve is above the yeast/break in the bottom of the cone, you can rack sediment free beer into the kegs and as you get towards the bottom, you rotate the racking tube south (down) until you just start picking up yeasties.
I haven't checked out the Frugal write up yet, but it sounds like there isn't a rotating racking solution on there. Anyone do this yet with success? I saw one Australian guys setup but it involved machining plastic parts on a lathe. Anything more off-the-shelf out there?
samc
Well-Known Member
For the dump valve at the bottomtank I have a 1 1/2 FPT threads already in the tank. I bought a Nylon Reducer Bushing 1/1/4 to 3/4 and then put a 3/4 - 3/4 Nylon Close Nipple in the 3/4 inch reducer bushing. I then attached a brass 3/4 inch ball valve to the nipple. Thus my dump valve.
As far as my bottling port I then measured 6 inches up the side of the conical and using a 3/4 hole saw cut a hole in the side of the conical. I then had a 1 1/2 inch brass pipe that I pushed through the hole and attached O ring over the threads I then threaded a 1 1/4 inch bushing like I used for the dump valve until finger tight. On the outside I threaded another O-Ring over the pipe and put several washers up against the O-rings and then threaded another 3/4 inch ball valve and tightened the Washers and O-Rings snug against the conical and thus sealing it from leaks.
Now for the top. I know there has been some questions about Air tight versus Open. The lid screws on and off and into and "flange". I went to Grainger and bought a O-ring that goes over my lid and then screws into the top. Thus sealing the lid. I then took some silicon and sealed around the flange edges. I don't know what yours will be like but my lid flange is removable and I took mine off and seal the lid back on. On my lid I have a cap that I removed and my Air Lock fits perfect.
Another modification that I did was that I cut the lip down on the inside of the conical flange for easier cleaning. I just used a dremel tool and it was very easy.
Another thing I did was that I made sure all the edges were nice and smooth and nylon taped all the fittings
The following are the web site addresses where I got my
Bushings:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3GZC7
Nylon Nipples:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...Search&originalValue=Nylon+Nipple&L1=Nipples,
O-Rings:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/guideBrowse.shtml
I bought all my ball valves, washers, smaller O-rings brass nipple at Ace Hardware.
A couldn't be happier with my 2 conicals. I have used Plastic Conical for the last 4 years and never had a problem. When I keg I hook up the hose to my bottling port and open the valve and within 10 minutes I am done. As far as cleaning I then take the conical to my wash room sink, open the port, dump and throughly rinse the inside and scrub with a plastic pad any residual. I then fill the conical back up with water and Oxyclean and let soak for several hours. I then heat up water to boiling and after I dump the Oxyclean water put the boiling water in the conical along with Star San and seal the conical up and let sit for a day. When I go to brew I dump the water and I am ready to put the wort in the fermenter.
If I am going to wash yeast I after I keg I will dump 2 quarts of boiled water that has been cooled into the fermenter and swish it around real good and let sit for an hour. I then fill the 2 quart jar up with the yeast. I then put the jar in the refrigerator I will break it into smaller portions at my leisure.
I hope this helps. I f anyone has any questions let me know.
TD
As far as my bottling port I then measured 6 inches up the side of the conical and using a 3/4 hole saw cut a hole in the side of the conical. I then had a 1 1/2 inch brass pipe that I pushed through the hole and attached O ring over the threads I then threaded a 1 1/4 inch bushing like I used for the dump valve until finger tight. On the outside I threaded another O-Ring over the pipe and put several washers up against the O-rings and then threaded another 3/4 inch ball valve and tightened the Washers and O-Rings snug against the conical and thus sealing it from leaks.
Now for the top. I know there has been some questions about Air tight versus Open. The lid screws on and off and into and "flange". I went to Grainger and bought a O-ring that goes over my lid and then screws into the top. Thus sealing the lid. I then took some silicon and sealed around the flange edges. I don't know what yours will be like but my lid flange is removable and I took mine off and seal the lid back on. On my lid I have a cap that I removed and my Air Lock fits perfect.
Another modification that I did was that I cut the lip down on the inside of the conical flange for easier cleaning. I just used a dremel tool and it was very easy.
Another thing I did was that I made sure all the edges were nice and smooth and nylon taped all the fittings
The following are the web site addresses where I got my
Bushings:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3GZC7
Nylon Nipples:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ww...Search&originalValue=Nylon+Nipple&L1=Nipples,
O-Rings:
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/guideBrowse.shtml
I bought all my ball valves, washers, smaller O-rings brass nipple at Ace Hardware.
A couldn't be happier with my 2 conicals. I have used Plastic Conical for the last 4 years and never had a problem. When I keg I hook up the hose to my bottling port and open the valve and within 10 minutes I am done. As far as cleaning I then take the conical to my wash room sink, open the port, dump and throughly rinse the inside and scrub with a plastic pad any residual. I then fill the conical back up with water and Oxyclean and let soak for several hours. I then heat up water to boiling and after I dump the Oxyclean water put the boiling water in the conical along with Star San and seal the conical up and let sit for a day. When I go to brew I dump the water and I am ready to put the wort in the fermenter.
If I am going to wash yeast I after I keg I will dump 2 quarts of boiled water that has been cooled into the fermenter and swish it around real good and let sit for an hour. I then fill the 2 quart jar up with the yeast. I then put the jar in the refrigerator I will break it into smaller portions at my leisure.
I hope this helps. I f anyone has any questions let me know.
TD
Bingo award. This is what I do. I just dump in from the top and then Oxygenate through the top.
TD
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
It sure does! Thanks.
I've place my order for the tank. I'll try to take some pics documenting my build to share with others.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
sounds like fun
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
Could one just buy one of those tanks and put a ball valve on the bottom of the tank and be good to go for brewing beer or alcohol?
lehr
Well-Known Member
Do you mean fermenting beer ? You will also need a racking arm to draw your beer off for kegging or bottling. The bottom valve is to drop trub and it also helps in cleaning.
Pat
... unless you just siphon it.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
so one would also have to drill a hole for another valve so u can transfer the beer to bottle or keg.
... or you could just siphon it.
I haven't put racking arms or anything in mine. I have a large autosiphon that works great. I just clamp it to the edge of the lid and drain away. Why bother with making it more complicated than it needs to be?
I haven't put racking arms or anything in mine. I have a large autosiphon that works great. I just clamp it to the edge of the lid and drain away. Why bother with making it more complicated than it needs to be?
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
thats what i was thinking just was wondering, bc i was thinking u could ferment it in the tank then siphon it to another vessel or carboy then bottle or keg.
why can't you just rack from the bottom port?
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
I dont know thats what i was kind of asking about before but maybe because that valve at the bottom is just trub maybe not sure.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
I think you could rack from the bottom port if you didn't want to wash your yeast and had the appropriate rack height. Being as I haven't used a conical yet, my opinion/thoughts are only that however.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
yea true but i think you could dump the trub out first and when the yeast is gone you could rack from the bottom. Just my opinion.
Yes that is what I thought the whole point of these things. If I wanted to use a racing cane I would just stick with a cheap buckets.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
true thats what i was getting to the bottom of. But you still have to transfer the beer to another vessel for bottling unless one has a additional valve for bottling on the tank. Unless someone here thinks im wrong about the idea.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
Of course, (as several people prefer to continuously point out for some reason) you could ferment with plastic buckets, or carboys, or old kegs as well. One of the 'benefits' of a conical fermenter is in dropping the trub and easy racking while maintaining the yeast cake. If you aren't planning on doing one of those two things I personally don't see the appeal of a conical. I don't think the 'magic' of 60 degree walls will make your beer better.
At least for me, I want to try a conical to see if I find the whole fermentation process more pleasant. I went with a plastic version to give it a test go for a reasonable cost. The dump valve and racking cane are important for me as they are key parts of the conical experience. I'd like to try making a small beer, dropping the trub, racking the beer off and pouring a big beer on the yeast bed thing. I might also try collecting yeast for future batches. I think a conical might facilitate those experiments. Besides, I like playing with new beer toys.
If I love it, I'll either upgrade to a SS version or keep my plastic if its working. Otherwise, I'll stick to my carboys.
At least for me, I want to try a conical to see if I find the whole fermentation process more pleasant. I went with a plastic version to give it a test go for a reasonable cost. The dump valve and racking cane are important for me as they are key parts of the conical experience. I'd like to try making a small beer, dropping the trub, racking the beer off and pouring a big beer on the yeast bed thing. I might also try collecting yeast for future batches. I think a conical might facilitate those experiments. Besides, I like playing with new beer toys.
If I love it, I'll either upgrade to a SS version or keep my plastic if its working. Otherwise, I'll stick to my carboys.
Totally agree with the above.. I ferment in old 1/2 sanke kegs and carboys in additional to my conicals. The only reason I got the conicals was volume. They're 30 gallon conicals that I got for $100 a peice. I wasn't going to find anything else that large for that cheap... unless I simply went with a garbage can (which also works).
The dump valve on the bottom is a nice-to-have as you can get the beer off the trub pretty easily.
As I was posting above, I haven't bothered with a racking arm because I have a large autosiphon that is just as easy.
The dump valve on the bottom is a nice-to-have as you can get the beer off the trub pretty easily.
As I was posting above, I haven't bothered with a racking arm because I have a large autosiphon that is just as easy.
As someone who has two ten gallon plastic fermenters from Tank Depot and has posted several times on the building of the fermenter I guess ignorance is bliss. When I bought my fermenters my intention was to always have a racking port. I simply measured up from the bottom where the one gallon mark would be and drilled a 1/2 inch hole using a hole saw and did the following:
Threaded through the hole a 1/2" - Stainless steel pipe nipple. 1.5 inch long.
Then on the inside of the fermenter put over the threads a 1/2" O-ring and attached - 1/2" - Stainless Steel Locknut straight threaded with groove for o-rings on the threads and hand tightened it.
On the outside I placed another 1/2" O-ring over the threads and put several washers over the threads and the tighened everything up by putting a 1/2 ball valve on. Tested it for leaks. Had none and the fermeter was ready.
Theyre really isn't that much to putting in a racking port. When the beer is ready to keg I attach a adapter with nipple to the threaded portion of the Ball valve, attach my hose with racking cane and keg away. The port sits about 1 inch above the trub so I don't get any back wash and if I do it is because I haven't dumped my yeast during the fermenting process
If anyone has any questions fire away.
TD
Threaded through the hole a 1/2" - Stainless steel pipe nipple. 1.5 inch long.
Then on the inside of the fermenter put over the threads a 1/2" O-ring and attached - 1/2" - Stainless Steel Locknut straight threaded with groove for o-rings on the threads and hand tightened it.
On the outside I placed another 1/2" O-ring over the threads and put several washers over the threads and the tighened everything up by putting a 1/2 ball valve on. Tested it for leaks. Had none and the fermeter was ready.
Theyre really isn't that much to putting in a racking port. When the beer is ready to keg I attach a adapter with nipple to the threaded portion of the Ball valve, attach my hose with racking cane and keg away. The port sits about 1 inch above the trub so I don't get any back wash and if I do it is because I haven't dumped my yeast during the fermenting process
If anyone has any questions fire away.
TD
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
true it doesnt take much to put one on but for the people that dont want to do that with the tank. Could we transfer from the bottom valve or siphon form the top of the tank?
I think the racking port people are talking about are the ones where it rotates.
I like your way, simple and efective. You know you are going to leave a gallon behind so just make sure you brew an extra 1.5.
I like your way, simple and efective. You know you are going to leave a gallon behind so just make sure you brew an extra 1.5.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
true but thats why we are using these tanks to make high voulme of beer so if we have to lose a gallon or two it wont matter because your making 20 to 40 gallons of beer.
... or you can just siphon it off.
Is this thing on?? (tapping my microphone) TESTING... testing... CHECK one... CHECK one.
Is this thing on?? (tapping my microphone) TESTING... testing... CHECK one... CHECK one.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
Yep, it's working and I think we (or at least I) understand that one can just siphon from the conical. There's no reason it won't work just fine. Of course, there's no reason an old garbage can won't work just fine as a fermenter if you seal it, clean it and sanitize it. Sometimes it's just fun to play around with stuff even if it isn't "necessary." I think that's what people are saying about the rotating racking port. I'm working on a design for one to put one on my plastic conical. I do this thing "not because it is easy, but because it is hard." Or something like that 
Totally agree... I was just saying that because of the posts saying that you would lose a gallon of beer without the racking arm.
That's crazy-talk. Just siphon it if the racking arm is either not there or doesn't rotate.
Just letting a gallon sit there and go to waste didn't make a lot of sense to me.
That's crazy-talk. Just siphon it if the racking arm is either not there or doesn't rotate.
Just letting a gallon sit there and go to waste didn't make a lot of sense to me.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
+1 I'm with you on that!
lehr
Well-Known Member
I have a racking arm and dont lose a gallon but mine runs pretty close to the bottom of the fermentor. I drop trub and then run my racking valve for a second to clear it then fill the kegs. Simple no cleaning a racking cane no opening the top of the fermentor.
Pat
Pat
when I brew a 37 gallon batch losing one gallon really doesn't keep me up at night.
insnekamkze86
Well-Known Member
im either going to get the 15 gallon one or the 30 gallon one not sure yet. Im mostly going to be brewing mead so if i get one i have to seal it because mead takes longer than a month to be fully done. but when i go to brew beer i wont have to worry about that so much.
Red Clay
Well-Known Member
You know your mother would remind you of how wrong it is to not empty your fermentor when there are thirsty beer lovers in other countries who don't have enough to drink!
Landshark67
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I picked up a 30gal plastic conical two weeks ago. Mine has a 2inch threaded opening so I ordered a stainless 2" NPT/tri-clamp fitting. I've added a 90deg elbow and reducer (mostly for clearance). I plan on harvesting yeast and then racking right from the bottom.
www.home-distiller.com sells the fitting.
Plastic is definitely the economical way to go. I suggest incorporating tri-clamps (over time) to build up your inventory of equipment so if/when you switch to some stainless gear, you'll be ready to go full tri-clamp. Smaller $$ amounts over time.
If you do want to move towards stainless, I suggest contacting Toldeo Metal Spinning and have them make your conical hoppers with welded fittings.
IMO - This is a little safer than drilling a second hole for racking. My concern is adding any internal ridges/edges for bacterial buildup.
www.home-distiller.com sells the fitting.
Plastic is definitely the economical way to go. I suggest incorporating tri-clamps (over time) to build up your inventory of equipment so if/when you switch to some stainless gear, you'll be ready to go full tri-clamp. Smaller $$ amounts over time.
If you do want to move towards stainless, I suggest contacting Toldeo Metal Spinning and have them make your conical hoppers with welded fittings.
IMO - This is a little safer than drilling a second hole for racking. My concern is adding any internal ridges/edges for bacterial buildup.
It seems to me that if you are going to spend $200 or more on a plastic conical, then spend the extra and get stainless! All it takes is a few scratches and you have wasted $200+. If you are going to brew in plastic, stick with a $15 brewing tub. Plastic conicals are a waste of $$ IMHO.
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