Plagued with off flavors need ideas

[spam]

I think i have covered all the obvious candidate's.
I have:

1. Used to packs of fresh rehydrated yeast.
2. Used temperature control accurate to two degrees of liquid itself.
3. Used up to 50% filtered RO/DI water
4. Replaced all plastic equipment and hoses
5. Switched between star-San and iodine cleaners

Yet I am stl getting an off flavor in about 90% of my brews! I moved to a rural location about two years ago and now have well water. In my last home I had city water and would get the off flavor maybe 40% of the time. But now it is almost every batch! The flavor I get is the same in every beer regardless of yeast,style,or color. The flavor is strange,something clove like but not identical to clove. A little bandaid like but not identical, ,,so hard to describe. Picture this,,,you take a great beer that came out perfect then you dry hop it with one clove ,one cigarette, and one slice of pickle. Then you would have my off flavor. This is driving me mad! Please bounce some ideas off me! I am at my whits end!

 

[mongoose33]

Have you ever had a water report done?

Ever thought of building up your water from 100 percent RO/DI?

When you say temp control within 2 degrees, what kind of beer and what kind of temperatures?

Are you kegging or bottling?

What about a complete recipe to give us an idea specifically what you're doing?

 

[MaltMaker]

Have several other people taste your beers and see if they taste anything off. Of course, you'll need to find honest people and have a thick skin yourself. Don't tell them what you suspect.

If that doesn't work just stop smoking and eating pickles while brewing!

 

[ncbrewer]

The "bandaid" description makes me think of chlorine/chloramine.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I think your best bet is to switch to all RO water and see if it's still there. How are you chilling? Is there maybe a leak? How are you oxygenating?

 

[spam]

All good points . I especially like the smoking and eating pickles comments LOL
But seriously I just made two batches using 100% RO-DI water the past few days in a last ditch effort. I will post how they turn out.
To answer some questions. ..
No water report (well water) but I did test carbonate hardness it is zero .
I have brewd mostly ales ,from cream ale to DIPA ,I ferment them at 65 and slowly ramp up to 69f
I chill with a diy 50' copper immersion chiller (no leaks)
I bottle using table sugar but corn sugar same results

 

[spam]

You know? Now you got me thinking about my bottles....I have noticed if I let my beers bottle condition for more than a few weeks the become over carbonated and develop a almost dry head foam when poured...I always thought this was normal for home brew. Now I'm wondering if I missed something right in front of me.....

 

[spam]

Then again,I taste the off flavor before the beer gets bottled

 

[kristiismean]

all grain or extract (was that stated?)

when was the last time you soaked your bottling bucket spigot in pbw (not star san, a cleaner).

when was the last time you cleaned or replaced your bottling wand, hose, etc. everything that comes in contact with the beer after fermentation.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Are you saying KH (alkalinity as CaCO3) is zero for your well water? Did you use a GH/KH test kit?

 

[pvpeacock]

This may sound crazy to some, but I used to get a hint of a band aid flavor in my ales that no one else seemed to be able to taste. It drove me nuts. I used campden tablets to get rid of chlorimine, I am a fanatic about cleaning, I have temperature control, etc., etc. What I eventually discovered was that it was US-05 yeast. As soon as I stopped using it, the flavor went away. No matter what other ale yeasts I use, that taste is simply not there. I must have some sensitivity to something in US-05.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Then again,I taste the off flavor before the beer gets bottled

What do you use for a cleaner? Not sanitizer, but for cleaning junk and bottles

 

[spam]

I brew mostly all grain ,but I did two BB kits over the holidays with the same off flavor (worse even) . I measured my well waters KH with a liquid test kit ,it is as close to zero as the colors go,and I know it is acidic as well . I have replaced all my equipment with new over the last few months and even traded in my plastic buckets for new fermonsters. I just sat down tonight to sample a few of my worst beers so I can convey what I taste here. See below....

Clone brews , harpoon IPA clone(all grain) : pours crystal clear,lightly carbonated, beautiful amber color, no head,whisky like aroma,tastes like wood,cardboard,whisky.

BB holiday ale extract kit: pours dark amber,lightly carbonated, no head,smells of cough syrup, bandaid and clove flavors. Yuck!


BB cream ale extract kit: pours crystal clear golden,medium carbonation,no head,slight medicinal aroma,bandaid and clove flavors.

 

[spam]

Btw I clean with oxy clean sometimes, but mostly just clean with hot tap water and follow up with star-San , I use star-san double strength and use it on EVERYTHING including work areas

 

[TheHairyHop]

I don't know if it's your problem, but you should be cleaning everything with a cleaner such as oxyclean, rinsing well, and then using a small amount of sanitizer such as star San. The no head and off flavor makes me think it is a chemical problem.

This process should be applied to your bottles as well

 

[spam]

Ok I am willing to try anything,,if you guys recommend oxy on everything every time then I'll do it. Also I know it's not my problem because the off flavor is before packaging ,but how do you oxy your bottles? Seems labor intensive. I have just been rinsing bottles as soon as they are emptied then hitting with star san .

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

You stated above that you never get the offending off flavor unless you use US-05 yeast. Your answer is as simple as not using US-05 yeast. It has nothing to do with StarSan or Iodophor or Oxyclean or any of your procedures (otherwise it would occur with all yeasts).

Have you tried Nottingham? It will be very clean if kept at or below 65 degrees F. And so will W-34/70 (which others have discovered stays clean at well above lager fermentation temperatures, and therefore can see use as a good/clean ale yeast).

 

[spam]

No silver,that was another poster,not me. I get the off flavor regardless of yeast strain. But thanks for responding
I am however starting to question my fermentation temperature. Most brews I set my Johnson controls a-19 to about 65 and ramp up to 69ish. I tape the probe to the side of fermenter and cover with folded up paper towel to act as an insulator. I am beginning to wonder if the actual temperature of the wort in the center of the fermenter is going much higher than my probe is reading. Maybe I should be setting my controller much lower? What is common practice when the prob is NOT in a thermowell?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

I would drop the Johnson Controls setting(s) by 3 or 4 degrees to compensate for surface vs. actual internal temperature.

 

[mongoose33]

No silver,that was another poster,not me. I get the off flavor regardless of yeast strain. But thanks for responding
I am however starting to question my fermentation temperature. Most brews I set my Johnson controls a-19 to about 65 and ramp up to 69ish. I tape the probe to the side of fermenter and cover with folded up paper towel to act as an insulator. I am beginning to wonder if the actual temperature of the wort in the center of the fermenter is going much higher than my probe is reading. Maybe I should be setting my controller much lower? What is common practice when the prob is NOT in a thermowell?

I rather doubt the temp varies much. Ever watch an active fermentation? It's like a category 5 storm going on in there. Lots of movement.

You might try using something a bit more substantial than a folded up paper towel. I use a piece of inch thick foam over the probe, does a nice job of insulating the probe from the outside temps.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX4D5ffT5sc[/ame]

 

[TheHairyHop]

Ok I am willing to try anything,,if you guys recommend oxy on everything every time then I'll do it. Also I know it's not my problem because the off flavor is before packaging ,but how do you oxy your bottles? Seems labor intensive. I have just been rinsing bottles as soon as they are emptied then hitting with star san .

I'm wondering about the amount of star San that you are using. I typically apply with only a spray bottle. The lack of head is interesting. And yes, bottling is super labor intensive and that's why I switched to kegs

 

[spam]

Good points all, I think I will clean everything with pbw,then brew a simple batch using Poland springs water,then ferment at a lower temperature with a vile of white labs or something. Then I will report back...I don't know what else to try ,and I don't have any craft brew friends,they all drink bud light crap.lol

 

[spam]

Just posted this in another thread as well last night I cracked open a non-alcoholic Homebrew this beer was made with a partial batch that had the off flavor I have described above somehow the non-alcoholic version is 100% free of the off flavor. Somehow heating the finished bits 175 degrees for a half hour totally removed all my off flavor which leaves me to wonder what did I boil off? Was it fusel alcohols? Regular alcohol? Or was it some other flavor compound? If someone could tell me what exactly boils off besides alcohol then maybe I can get to the bottom of what it was causing my off flavor.

 

[Drk93TT]

My bet is its a cleanliness or sanitation issue.

Do you use a ball valve after the boil to transfer ? When is the last time you took it apart to clean it?

Clean meticulously with Oxyclean or PBW . Rinse well, use RO or carbon block filtered tap water cold to rinse everything then sanitize with StarSan.

I had phenolic flavors in my HB until I used temp control to ferment and really really cleaned and sanitized OCD anything that is post boil needs to be spotless clean and sanitized. Even your hands (no pickles or cigars! :/ lol)

 

[spam]

Ya know I do have a valve on my kettle, I will clean it thoroughly ,thanks for pointing that out ,oversight on my part. I dont think its my cause , but it should be cleaned anyhow

 

[xpops]

Ya know I do have a valve on my kettle, I will clean it thoroughly ,thanks for pointing that out ,oversight on my part. I dont think its my cause , but it should be cleaned anyhow

after a couple consecutive bad batches, i started doing the same thing. i now take apart my ball valves after each brew.

it's crappy to do it, but it's even crappier dumping batches of gross brew!

 

[spam]

Yes I just checked my ball valve sure was nasty in there I took it apart and cleaned it thoroughly I have been wanting to upgrade my Kettle my next one will not have a valve that is for sure

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe it was indeed your dirty ball valve, and everything else is fine. But...

Cleaning all your equipment that touches your wort and beer is good practice. Use brushes. You can make your own homemade PBW from 2 simple ingredients, 70% Oxiclean Free and 30% TSP/90. I use mostly washing soda for routine cleaning, and (homemade) PBW where it counts, like hoses, valves, mesh bags, bucket fermentors, etc.

Starsan, good choice. No need to use at double strength, just let it contact for 30-60 seconds, and don't rinse it off. It's a no-rinse sanitizer. As longs as it clings to the surface, that surface is sanitary!

Get a handle on your water. Unless you use an super RO system, you cannot have all 0's in the mineral composition, especially Ca++ and HCO3-.
Brew a few batches using only RO or distilled water with a small addition of CaCl2 and CaSO4 (read forum sticky), and probably a little acid to get your mash pH in the 5.4 range. Use Bru'nwater spreadsheet to determine your mash pH, but keep mineral additions minimal until your beer comes out good.

Your well water should not contain Chlorine or Chloramines, it is routinely added to municipal water. But it may contain other minerals and chemicals. Is your well water filtered? Is there a water softener employed?

Maybe switch to a different yeast. I don't care for some of the flavors US-05 and S-04 add, but they don't make beer undrinkable.

 

[spam]

Yes i will head the ideas. I am also going to get a kettle without a valve. After seeing and thinking about what could lurk in there it's just not worth it. And who the heck wants to have to take it apart and clean ugg

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes i will head the ideas. I am also going to get a kettle without a valve. After seeing and thinking about what could lurk in there it's just not worth it. And who the heck wants to have to take it apart and clean ugg

If you really don't want a bulkhead or valve just remove the valve and stick a cap on it. Or stick a short bolt + washer backed with a silicone gasket in the hole.

BTW, cleaning a valve is not that hard or difficult. You don't need to take it apart every brew day, as long as you know how to "flush" it.

I use the outlets and valves for recirculating and whirlpooling, couldn't do without those.

 

[ncbrewer]

Ok I am willing to try anything,,if you guys recommend oxy on everything every time then I'll do it. Also I know it's not my problem because the off flavor is before packaging ,but how do you oxy your bottles? Seems labor intensive. I have just been rinsing bottles as soon as they are emptied then hitting with star san .

I clean all post-boil equipment except bottles with Oxi. The bottles, I just flush REALLY well with hot tap water right after emptying, including swirling the hot water around in the bottom to pick up any sediment. Star San just before bottling. At one time, I started seeing a ring in the necks at the liquid level. I started running my freshly washed little finger in the neck to scrub out any possible remnants of a ring. Then inspect by holding up to a light. Been doing this for about four years with no problems. From reading this forum it seems that lots of brewers clean their bottles this way.