pitching a dubbel yeast cake into a tripel?

[odie]

About to try a tripel/golden strong this weekend. I saved the T-58 yeast cake from my dubbel a week ago in a mason jar and thinking about using it instead of a fresh package.

Yes the dubbel is a darker beer than a tripel but I would be decanting all the dark wort off the yeast cake before pitching. So I don't think any of the darkness or much flavors will carry over.

In retrospect I probably should have done the Tripel first, then the Dubbel and finally the Quad all with the same yeast cake

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

They say you shouldn't re-pitch yeast from a batch of anything over OG 1.050. They also say you shouldn't pitch yeast from a dark beer to a pale beer. IME, I've done both those with perfectly fine results, and I think as long as you use sanitary methods, you'll be fine. Not ideal but fine. What was the OG of the Dubbel?

 

[odie]

haven't heard the 1.050 thing...but then again haven't really looked into the whole process much either...I wonder how brewers got by all these centuries...lol

My first re-pitch was from a 1.053 OG pale 3 months later into a chocolate stout. took almost 3 days for activity but is doing well. Not kegged yet but I feel it's about ready. Seems to be attenuating well. will probably take a final FG and keg this weekend.

Second re-pitch was from a 1.038 OG Hefe (I was not happy with the mash results and ABV was low). Again 3 months old into another hefe, this time activity almost immediate. May keg early next week.

To your question...the Dubbel OG is 1.064. I think I shall try it. The Quad OG was 1.090. I should probably just forget that yeast batch?

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

Yes, the yeast from the quad will be mostly dead or weak, go ahead and get rid of it. Yeast from the Dubbel isn't optimal but should work. I know Trappist breweries re-pitch but they are likely top cropping so are avoiding exposing the yeast to excessive alcohol levels. I haven't used T-58, I know it's usually pretty cheap, have you had good results? I love Belgian styles and have been searching for my favorite strains.

 

[odie]

The dubbel was around 5.7% when I kegged it. Hopefully some good yeast left to multiply. And hopefully it will continue to ferment in the keg at room temps

 

[odie]

Shouldn’t the old yeast produce some fresh yeast? That is how the stuff works?

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

From what I understand, yeast reproduce during the adaption phase, (the lag time between pitching and active fermentation.) So yes, when you pitch the harvested yeast into your next batch, there will be a certain amount of reproduction.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

Many many moons ago I did something similar, though in hindsight “best practices” were definitely not employed. I made a la chouffe n’ice inspired Christmas ale, and used that cake for a Delerium tremmens inspired strong.

While the tremmens was cooling, I pulled the airlock on N’ice bucket fermenter and slid the sanitized racking cane in and transferred to a keg, then switched the hose from CFC from recirculate to the hose from racking cane and filled fermenter right back up with chilled wort. It worked just fine, and I did not pick up any notes for the N’ice when doing side by side comparisons. Fermentation was quick and complete, and I could have repaved my driveway with resulting yeast cake.

All that said, I would probably not do that again, unless it was to try to “measure” some kind of result from that process. I just started building up larger starters when doing the big Belgians.

 

[odie]

didn't know reproduction was only during a certain period. I assumed yeast would continuously multiply while they were active and eating a readily available food source. And once the sugars were finished, they would stop multiplying and go back to sleep. Well the younger yeast would go to sleep and much of the older stuff would die off.

Anyway the dubbel started at 1.064 but was still 1.020 when I kegged (without cold crashing to get additional suspended yeast into the keg for further conditioning). I assume it will drop further as it ages at room temp. Since I did not cold crash I wonder how much viable yeast is in the cake?

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

I believe reproduction stops when dissolved oxygen in the wort is depleted. John Palmer's How to Brew explains it very well, (that's where my info is coming from.) It may or may not attenuate farther, I actually have a Dubbel in primary right now that started at 1.062 and now has been at 1.018 for about a week, I would have liked to see it drop down farther but I did mash quite high. No way to know how much viable yeast but I would bet you have a ton! Pitch that cake and let us know the results!

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

No way to know how much viable yeast without doing a cell count, that is.

 

[odie]

oxygen is the key to yeast reproduction, not fermentation? I never knew. that explains the oxygenating wort bit. I never have done that since just pitching/sprinkling yeast into the wort has always seemed to make beer and I had the time to wait on the yeaties.

The only aeration that occurs is draining the kettle into the fermenter. about a 2 foot drop, thus splashing a bit in the fermenter.

guess I shall invest in an aquarium pump and air stones?

 

[jswillbrewforbeer]

Oxygen is key to reproduction which is key to healthy fermentation so they go hand in hand. I used an aquarium pump for a while with okay results but I switched to using pure oxygen with a stone and have seen some major improvements, mostly with attenuation. I prefer the oxygen.

 

[filthyastronaut]

I wouldn't sweat pitching a second gen yeast with a relatively high OG from the first beer, and you needn't worry about the color. I would only have reservations about yeast after strong flavors like coffee were added, or a bunch of hop matter, or anything similar. I usually assume about 1 b cells/ml for my slurry, but that is a huge ballpark. It's a conservative estimate based in numbers Wyeast has suggested, and I also remove all my hot break. Regardless, I think you are best served pitching on the high side: if you calculate that you should have 300 billion cells for a Triple, pitch 350 ml.

Also, oxygen is readily consumed in the beginning stages of fermentation, and is used by yeast to produce sterols for cell wall production. Yeast will still reproduce without it, but will suffer vitality losses and likely not be able to reproduce as much. Reproduction occurs during the vast majority of fermentation, in phases that somewhat overlap. Without additional equipment, you can aerate up to 8 ppm dissolved O2 by rocking/splashing/aquarium pump but not more. This is, however, sufficient for most fermentations, and may be particularly lacking for lagers. Finally, dry yeast is supposed to be packaged with sterols for growth, but I am not sure on the hard numbers of whether it is sufficient for all situations. I would still aerate a lager with rocking while using dry lager yeast, myself.

 

[Gulo_gulo]

I wouldn't sweat pitching a second gen yeast with a relatively high OG from the first beer, and you needn't worry about the color. I would only have reservations about yeast after strong flavors like coffee were added, or a bunch of hop matter, or anything similar.

+1

 

[tellyho]

+1

+2

 

[odie]

I pitched the whole cake from the dubbel after decanting the top wort. Aereated best I could by splashing. OG on the tripel is 1.080 before candi syrup and honey which will follow peak krausen

 

[odie]

krausen is looking good. pitched some D-45 syrup yesterday. a pound of honey today. smellin good. having high hopes for the T-58 yeast cake.

 

[odie]

Like my fermenting stand?

 

[Syn]

View attachment 657745
Like my fermenting stand?

This is haunting.