Pilsner beer doesn't ferment

[Genelec]

Hello,
I brewed around 4 All Grain pilsners and each time the fermentation wasn't fast enough and stopped at around 1.021 Sg. The original gravity was 1.055 sg but it took around 3 weeks to get down to 1.021. On my last brew I followed every step and for some reason the og was 1.065 but it should've been around 1.055. What am I doing wrong? I thought about using a starter but the guy at my local homebrew shop told me I don't need one.
Thanks

 

[pabloj13]

Need more info. Recipe? All-grain? What kind of yeast and temps? How much yeast pitched? Aerated?

 

[Yooper]

I thought about using a starter but the guy at my local homebrew shop told me I don't need one.
Thanks

And to quote Dr. Phil, "How's the workin' for ya?"

With a pilsner of 1.055, and using quality liquid lager yeast, a pretty large starter is required.

I'd also ask about fermentation temperatures, which are crucial, and aeration of the wort. If you've had the fermentation temperatures controlled at about 50 degrees the whole time, even underpitching you should do better than 1.021. Do you have a hydrometer that you've checked in distilled water?

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

And to quote Dr. Phil, "How's the workin' for ya?"

With a pilsner of 1.055, and using quality liquid lager yeast, a pretty large starter is required.

I'd also ask about fermentation temperatures, which are crucial, and aeration of the wort. If you've had the fermentation temperatures controlled at about 50 degrees the whole time, even underpitching you should do better than 1.021. Do you have a hydrometer that you've checked in distilled water?

Its likely underpitching if i had to guess, even only at 1.055 you would need 4-5 vials of yeast with no starter.

 

[Genelec]

The recipe is a Czech pilsner,
4300g Pilsner Malt

Tettnanger (3.5%) 80g/90 min
Tettnanger (3.5%) 20g/45 min
Tettnanger (3.5%) 10g/ 15 min

Mash:
50˚C / 20 min
62˚C / 30 min
70˚C / 30 min

Yeast: Wyeast 2007 Pilsn Lager

Fermentation temps: 9˚C
No Aeration

 

[pabloj13]

The recipe is a Czech pilsner,
4300g Pilsner Malt

Tettnanger (3.5%) 80g/90 min
Tettnanger (3.5%) 20g/45 min
Tettnanger (3.5%) 10g/ 15 min

Mash:
50˚C / 20 min
62˚C / 30 min
70˚C / 30 min

Yeast: Wyeast 2007 Pilsn Lager

Fermentation temps: 9˚C
No Aeration

Most modern malts don't need all those rests and you are definitely underpitching by a country mile. Get a new LHBS.

 

[Genelec]

Thanks a lot for your help, just two more questions. How come the O.G was 1.066 and how long do you think a pilsner with a good starter should take to ferment?

 

[pabloj13]

Thanks a lot for your help, just two more questions. How come the O.G was 1.066 and how long do you think a pilsner with a good starter should take to ferment?

There's no magic to it being a pilsner. My first lager took 8 days to go from 1.064 to 1.018. This was with a stepped up started of ~350 billion cells (at least 3.5 times what you pitched).

 

[Genelec]

Okay thanks a lot for all the help

 

[pabloj13]

Okay thanks a lot for all the help

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

There's no magic to it being a pilsner. My first lager took 8 days to go from 1.064 to 1.018. This was with a stepped up started of ~350 billion cells (at least 3.5 times what you pitched).

Yea and my Doppelbock(1.080) took about 7 days @ 50 with ~500 billion to hit 1.020.
OP definitely under pitched, i'd be a bit peeved at the LHBS and not take their advice anymore if they told you to use a single vial for a lager, they should know better.

 

[pjj2ba]

Most modern malts don't need all those rests and you are definitely underpitching by a country mile. Get a new LHBS.

They don't need multiple rest to prevent chill haze. That used to be a much bigger concern. However, there are still a number of us who still believe there are benefits to doing step mashes, that go beyond the prevention of chill haze. I feel they allow me to really tailor the components of my wort to get exactly what I want in the final product.

One can make great beer with a single infusion. I find I want more than what I get from doing that though - particularly when dealing with pilsner malt. Besides, I enjoy doing step mashes, and it is easy with my system

And to echo the others, definitely under-pitched

 

[pabloj13]

They don't need multiple rest to prevent chill haze. That used to be a much bigger concern. However, there are still a number of us who still believe there are benefits to doing step mashes, that go beyond the prevention of chill haze. I feel they allow me to really tailor the components of my wort to get exactly what I want in the final product.

One can make great beer with a single infusion. I find I want more than what I get from doing that though - particularly when dealing with pilsner malt. Besides, I enjoy doing step mashes, and it is easy with my system

And to echo the others, definitely under-pitched

Yeah, I'm not saying there is no potential benefit, but if I were going to troubleshoot someone's first few attempts at a lager, I'd go with the KISS method.

 

[pjj2ba]

KISS is definitely a good idea for a first lager. I just like to make sure folks are fully informed, even if they are going the KISS route

 

[DonLiguori]

How come the O.G was 1.066

Lots of things could affect that, but just to be certain did you measure the volume of wort collected that went to your boil, and then post-boil also? There's a change you simply just boiled harder and lost more water than usual.

 

[VladOfTrub]

What would be the KISS instructions for brewing a lager?

 

[pabloj13]

What would be the KISS instructions for brewing a lager?

I would say single infusion mash, huge starter (or stepped up starter), pitched at a few degrees below fermentation temp (i.e. 48), hold at fermentation temp (i.e. 50, depending on the strain) until nearly complete, D rest at 62 for 48 hours, then lager at 35. Something like that. Just to remove as many variables as possible when having issues with attenuation. Also the OP should definitely make sure their thermometer is calibrated.