PicoBrew Pico users

[Lbarouf]

For what it's worth, I've done both without seeing any difference other than time. When doing multiple matches, it may be convenient to do everything the same day. Brewing, cooling, pitching, set and done. If I brew an evening a pak batch, I often leave it cooling overnight in the basement with the red plug in the lid. The brief moment that I open the lid the next day to pitch, has never caused a dimethyl sulfides related taste. Knock on wood perhaps.Wort chilling never produced better beers nor adverse effects for me. I used for convenience if I knew I would be away for instance, and won't be able to pitch in a short time. I always pitch within 24 hours.

I'd like to hear anyone else chime in as well, I'd love to hear any science behind it.

As for the pic, it's not in action. About 3 ft tubing, one end has a ball lock connector, the other end a picnic tap with a tube at the spout to reach the bottom of any bottle I would use (I sometimes bring a 1gal growler).

 

[Lbarouf]

I brewed a lager, and when ready I placed it outside to keep. I have been keeping it outside as it's the same temperature as my fridge at the moment. It's 3gal, so double batch. It forced carb it for 8 days at 20 psi, lowered to 4psi to serve. 1st day, party, serving it was without an issue. We drank about half the keg. 2 days later, I disconnect the co2 and bring the keg to a house party and serve it there. Again, no issue except a little bit of lees that I guess from moving the keg. Carbonation level is perfect, creates a nice neck that lasts. Get the keg back, always at the same 4 psi level, with about a quarter left, but now the beer is flat. No neck, no carbonation. I am puzzled as to why a sealed keg that the manifold shows keeping a decent pressure is now flat. Anyone has an idea?

If it helps, the beer is kept around 32-35 degrees. CO2 tank is near full, and also at the same temperature. The gaz line is bevlex 1/4" I.D - 1/2" O.D crimped with oetiker clamps, no leaks confirmed via submersion.

 

[effetk]

Thanks for the pics! Seems easy enough, and I realize I might even have most of what I need already!

 

[macgyuver]

So, Z-Paks, 2.5 gallons of your favorite PicoPaks.... Some thoughts.
1 - is it all loose material or an actual Pak
2 - wonder if we can play with the recipe or tweak the procedure
3 - price?
I know there is more that will come to me later but will start with these.

 

[Lbarouf]

Would a 7.5Gal fermenter be big enough to ferment double Z/Zymatic batches?

 

[Lbarouf]

So, Z-Paks, 2.5 gallons of your favorite PicoPaks.... Some thoughts.
1 - is it all loose material or an actual Pak
2 - wonder if we can play with the recipe or tweak the procedure
3 - price?
I know there is more that will come to me later but will start with these.

For Question 1, if you check the Z's updated page you will see the "pak". Looks like a pre ground mix in a clear bag, so I can only deduct it will be ready to use measured ingredients to be poured in the step filter. Which is perfect for me. As for 2, anyone's guess (Unless Denny wants to chime in) but I will expect they will include the same menu option of the Pico and allow an option to alter the recipes with a ABV and bitterness simple tweak.

 

[Lbarouf]

Anyone knows who makes the PicoBrew corny kegs?
Can you brew using another keg size? Providing that you fill it with the right amount of water that is.... (I'm thinking of trying a 3gal one)

Last but not least... I'm thinking of combining and then splitting batches. I would like to double brew a recipe, combine them into 1 keg, and then split in 3 to ferment in 1Gal carboys. Anyone see an issue with this? For the yeast, should I pitch calculated amount for 1gal separately, or could I pitch in the 3 gal, mix manually and then split into 3? I am planning on pitching 1/6th of the pack in each carboys.

thanks,

 

[macgyuver]

Would a 7.5Gal fermenter be big enough to ferment double Z/Zymatic batches?

Yes - Z/Zymatic are 2.5 gallon each unless you combine them which is what the Z2,3,4 are doing. Then the size goes up but even with the Z2 you will have enough room.

For Question 1, if you check the Z's updated page you will see the "pak". Looks like a pre ground mix in a clear bag, so I can only deduct it will be ready to use measured ingredients to be poured in the step filter. Which is perfect for me. As for 2, anyone's guess (Unless Denny wants to chime in) but I will expect they will include the same menu option of the Pico and allow an option to alter the recipes with a ABV and bitterness simple tweak.

Thank you for reminding me to check the Z page, I haven't looked at it since I signed up for the Z2... It does look like loose material which is great, should make it easy to change things up a little.

Anyone knows who makes the PicoBrew corny kegs?
Can you brew using another keg size? Providing that you fill it with the right amount of water that is.... (I'm thinking of trying a 3gal one)

Last but not least... I'm thinking of combining and then splitting batches. I would like to double brew a recipe, combine them into 1 keg, and then split in 3 to ferment in 1Gal carboys. Anyone see an issue with this? For the yeast, should I pitch calculated amount for 1gal separately, or could I pitch in the 3 gal, mix manually and then split into 3? I am planning on pitching 1/6th of the pack in each carboys.

thanks,

I don't know who makes the kegs, I will say you can find them cheaper than at PicoBrew. Williams has them for 99 and you can catch the 20% off coupons which makes them roughly 80 each. Also Check AIH they run deals sometimes as well. I use 5g for everything except single batch and brew keg. I have read many times and got emails answered from PicoBrew that the keg sizes the units come with is what you should use due to the pumps not being sized to push/pull anymore water than that around. (Extra Wear and Tear) That being said I use a 2.5 gallon Torpedo keg to brew with my Pico-S. I fill it with the correct amount and let it go, have not had any issues. I also do multiple paks at a brew session 2 - 4 depending on what I am needing. I brew into the 2.5g and transfer to the other vessel, be it a 5g keg or my 7.5g conical. From there I pick the yeast needed per the calculations. I have not separated the brew back out to different fermentors so I can't say what to do there.

 

[OhDatOneGuy]

Hello, I'm still on page 10 of this thread but between what i have gleamed so far and what I've read on Facebook's pico user group. I'm already considering making a Youtube video that would cover a revised set of instructions. Do you think this would be helpful or a good idea for newbies? I plan on getting up to date with this thread and then making a list of bullet points of beneficial info to go over in the video. I kept looking for more helpful videos on YouTube but most consisted of people setting it up, following instructions and then being only mildly satisfied or disappointed with the results.

 

[tbader2]

Question for a potential buyer.

Ignoring indgredients, what aspects of the brew can be fully customized (I.e temp etc)

If not much is restricted, what customization aspects are limited (ignoring ingredients)?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Lbarouf]

Yes - Z/Zymatic are 2.5 gallon each unless you combine them which is what the Z2,3,4 are doing. Then the size goes up but even with the Z2 you will have enough room.



Thank you for reminding me to check the Z page, I haven't looked at it since I signed up for the Z2... It does look like loose material which is great, should make it easy to change things up a little.



I don't know who makes the kegs, I will say you can find them cheaper than at PicoBrew. Williams has them for 99 and you can catch the 20% off coupons which makes them roughly 80 each. Also Check AIH they run deals sometimes as well. I use 5g for everything except single batch and brew keg. I have read many times and got emails answered from PicoBrew that the keg sizes the units come with is what you should use due to the pumps not being sized to push/pull anymore water than that around. (Extra Wear and Tear) That being said I use a 2.5 gallon Torpedo keg to brew with my Pico-S. I fill it with the correct amount and let it go, have not had any issues. I also do multiple paks at a brew session 2 - 4 depending on what I am needing. I brew into the 2.5g and transfer to the other vessel, be it a 5g keg or my 7.5g conical. From there I pick the yeast needed per the calculations. I have not separated the brew back out to different fermentors so I can't say what to do there.

Thanks, I have split the wort and pitched separately. We’ll see.... i sure hope it won’t be wasted.

 

[Lbarouf]

Question for a potential buyer.

Ignoring indgredients, what aspects of the brew can be fully customized (I.e temp etc)

If not much is restricted, what customization aspects are limited (ignoring ingredients)?

Thanks for the help.

Short answer: you can only adjust alcohol level and bitterness. Everything else is hard coded.

Longer answer:
The Pico only allows you to adjust ABV and bitterness within a certain rage for each pack.

Now, adding adjuncts to the keg during the brew is neither recommended nor supported but in theory technically possible.

All the brew parameters such as temp are recipe controlled by the recipe creator.

As you can guess, it’s a closed loop system. It works well and as intended. It will create a quality wort that should result in what the brewer intended you to be tasting. You still need to properly ferment, but that part will go well should you follow all the guidance provided here.

I hope this helps.

 

[tbader2]

Short answer: you can only adjust alcohol level and bitterness. Everything else is hard coded.

Longer answer:
The Pico only allows you to adjust ABV and bitterness within a certain rage for each pack.

Now, adding adjuncts to the keg during the brew is neither recommended nor supported but in theory technically possible.

All the brew parameters such as temp are recipe controlled by the recipe creator.

As you can guess, it’s a closed loop system. It works well and as intended. It will create a quality wort that should result in what the brewer intended you to be tasting. You still need to properly ferment, but that part will go well should you follow all the guidance provided here.

I hope this helps.

What features are customizable in the recipe creator?

And none of those features can be adjusted on the system itself? You can’t change brew temp after you order a pak with the recipe creator?

 

[Lbarouf]

What features are customizable in the recipe creator?

And none of those features can be adjusted on the system itself? You can’t change brew temp after you order a pak with the recipe creator?

If you mean freestyle, you start with either water or an official beer style. You have a list of grains to choose from to alter the base style, yeast is static, based on style and the hops based on aroma bitterness and flavour.

No temperature tweaking whatsoever.

For the temperature you need to “upgrade” to the Zynatic or Z. Those give you much more flexibility in the recipe... you make it for scratch. The Pico is more for brewing known recipes/products/styles with little tweaking. It gives you predictable results in return. And, repeatable. In my case, with the size of the appliance and the fact that I did not have to stay in front of it while it brewed... to get back to brewing. Of course I miss doing my own full recipe, but the freestyle give me a bit of it.

Is this you were looking for?

 

[Lbarouf]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

Pico’s brew cycle takes about 2 hours to complete. After the brew cycle is finished, the beer will need to ferment for about a week before consumption. So, from PicoPak to pint, the whole process will take around a week.

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

 

[Oleary]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

I haven't tried one week, but my first few batches were at about 2.5 weeks (2 in primary, .5 carb). Too green even then. I can't imagine what it would taste like after 7 days. Might be an interesting test though. Bottle and open one a week to see/taste the changes.

 

[Lbarouf]

Has anyone tried krausening their batches? I'm contemplating to do so with a freestyle pak. It helps since I will know the F.G (how do you find the O.G and F.G of paks?) and can calculate the amount of fermenting wort to add to the conditioned keg. I plan on aging it for something like 6 months.

For anyone who did it, was it worth it? Would krausening benefit of a oak cask with a breather?

 

[jrb03]

I was wondering... when they advertised the pico back in 2015 Kickstarter, they were saying :

I wonder what the hell they had in mind. I can't think of a single beer style, fastferment or not, that would be ready, carbed, and fermented in 7 days. What am I missing? FastFerment should have been called pressurised ferment, or hot ferment in my opinion. Sure, I'd give it a try even a super low ABV beer. But I believe it's impossible to achieve. Anyone tried?

You must not of been around in the early days! Lots of complaints because of their optimistic timelines. It took a while to get people to exercise patience but the results speak for themselves. I still think the reason they continue to instruct pitching an entire package of yeast in these small batches is due to their fast time lines. Don’t do it.

 

[Lbarouf]

You must not of been around in the early days! Lots of complaints because of their optimistic timelines. It took a while to get people to exercise patience but the results speak for themselves. I still think the reason they continue to instruct pitching an entire package of yeast in these small batches is due to their fast time lines. Don’t do it.

It took a while to get going as my first machine was damaged and I had to get it swapped. Logistics were still being worked on at Picobrew. Cant complain. I may have tried 1 or 2 batches, not sure, with a full sachet of yeast, but recall joining this site around page 4 of this thread or so ( old numbering) and chatted and read at one point the lazy yeast comment.

I’m still curious as to “is it possible “ and what would it taste like. I would guess a 7 day brew to taste like bud light! I would rather have water.

 

[Oleary]

I currently use a corona mill for the rare BIAB batch. Any guesses on whether that might work with the new Z's? My understanding is it (the Z) will work more like a C/S/Pro (changed the arm out)?

 

[Oleary]

Has anyone tried krausening their batches? I'm contemplating to do so with a freestyle pak. It helps since I will know the F.G (how do you find the O.G and F.G of paks?) and can calculate the amount of fermenting wort to add to the conditioned keg. I plan on aging it for something like 6 months.

For anyone who did it, was it worth it? Would krausening benefit of a oak cask with a breather?

A few of the packs list the OG/FG (Annie's London Ale for one) on the labels but if not I use the ABV to give me a target FG. Not very accurate since you don't know if you hit their numbers, but if ABV is close, I 'assume' I came close to their numbers.

 

[Lbarouf]

A few of the packs list the OG/FG (Annie's London Ale for one) on the labels but if not I use the ABV to give me a target FG. Not very accurate since you don't know if you hit their numbers, but if ABV is close, I 'assume' I came close to their numbers.

Thanks. I find it too much of a moving target with 2 unknown. Unless I misunderstand something here, the ABV relies on you hitting the right O.G to beging with. With krausening, I understand that I need to have the right amount (at least close enough) of fermenting wort added to the one done fermenting. Without the real known expected F.G I have to assume 2 variables which could swing either way. I rather not try krausening until I brew at least 3 batches in a row with known variables and good results. Once it would be done, then I know that keeping everything equal, I will get so and so specific gravities.

It would be so much easier if we had the details of each pack, the right oz of each grain and hops so we can calculate everything out of the recipe instead. Anyhow.

 

[Lbarouf]

@Denny and anyone who brewed Denny's vanilla and bourbon porter: do you add the vanilla and bourbon AFTER the carbonation, or immediately after racking but BEFORE carbonation? What if I decide to naturally carbonate, would it affect the taste of the final product? Thanks for any input.

Cheers.

 

[PeteSeattle]

@Denny and anyone who brewed Denny's vanilla and bourbon porter: do you add the vanilla and bourbon AFTER the carbonation, or immediately after racking but BEFORE carbonation? What if I decide to naturally carbonate, would it affect the taste of the final product? Thanks for any input.

Cheers.

I added after racking and before carbonation. Came out fine.

 

[Lbarouf]

I added after racking and before carbonation. Came out fine.

Great, thanks!

 

[Oleary]

Thanks. I find it too much of a moving target with 2 unknown. Unless I misunderstand something here, the ABV relies on you hitting the right O.G to beging with. With krausening, I understand that I need to have the right amount (at least close enough) of fermenting wort added to the one done fermenting. Without the real known expected F.G I have to assume 2 variables which could swing either way. I rather not try krausening until I brew at least 3 batches in a row with known variables and good results. Once it would be done, then I know that keeping everything equal, I will get so and so specific gravities.

It would be so much easier if we had the details of each pack, the right oz of each grain and hops so we can calculate everything out of the recipe instead. Anyhow.

The ABV doesn't rely on you hitting the right OG (it's just the difference between the actual OG and the actual FG). If you know the actual OG (refractometer, tilt, etc) you can find the expected FG. I have a feeling we're talking about the same thing and I'm just missing the point.

 

[JRod JRod]

Brand new to home brewing - my Pico C arrives today and I can’t wait to brew my first batch (Elysian Dragonstooth Stout - came with the machine). I’ve read every post on this massive thread and feel much more prepared now. Thanks to the group for all the amazing insights!!!

Question - I want to control the temp of the keg during fermentation. I have a basement that’s in the mid 50s. I was going to wrap the keg in a seedling mat and the cozie and use a thermostat to try and keep the keg at 68 or so. Would there be any benefit in dropping the keg and mat into a 10-gallon water cooler? It’s insulated fairly well so the seedling mat won’t have to work so hard and it might help smooth out the temperature highs and lows. My only worry is that it will be too insulated and it will just get progressively hotter and hotter due to the fermentation process and I won’t be able to stay at 68. Any advice?

Thanks!!!

 

[Lbarouf]

Hey JRod, welcome to the forum.
Insulated environment means it won't drop in temperature as fast. A seedling mat's thermometer will stop heating the keg once 68 is reached. Don't expect the fermentation to bring the temperature that much higher, it's not thermonuclear brewing! ;-)

So once reached, or exceeded, it will take longer for it to drop again and the seedling pad to kick in again. If you use the fast ferment adapter, it will keep the pressure to a "safe" level, and I doubt your temperature will ever reach the upper limit of 84 degrees. So you're safe and it should mean less temperature fluctuations.

The only part I don't know, is how your water cooler will smell. Off gases will escape from the pressure relief valve. Not sure about using it for water after. Just a thought....

 

[Lbarouf]

My fridge kicked the can I guess. Thermostat is screwed and froze my beer that was cold crashing. Any chance I can salvage a brew that froze?

 

[jrb03]

Thaw it and drink it. No problem. I’ve froze a keg or two before lol.

 

[Lbarouf]

Never happened to me before. Done... is thawed and waiting a bit more before racking and carbing. Crossing fingers.

 

[PeteSeattle]

Never happened to me before. Done... is thawed and waiting a bit more before racking and carbing. Crossing fingers.

Extreme cold crashing!

 

[macgyuver]

Pico S for 279

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PicoBre...=9c329c463f2f11e8a2e0ee2e757ac07b0INT&cj=true

 

[ptmpls]

Pico S for 279

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PicoBre...=9c329c463f2f11e8a2e0ee2e757ac07b0INT&cj=true

Wow... that’s cheap. Have been brewing with Pico past 3 years and glad it got me back into brewing. Now i just built an induction BIAB system so looking to unload my Pico Pro but if someone can get a brand new system for $279 unlikely i can get more than half that for a used system!

 

[Lbarouf]

Wow... that’s cheap. Have been brewing with Pico past 3 years and glad it got me back into brewing. Now i just built an induction BIAB system so looking to unload my Pico Pro but if someone can get a brand new system for $279 unlikely i can get more than half that for a used system!

Yeah, but they ran out of that one. It's still $600 most of the time. But I hear you. I would just keep it if I was you. Or trade it to Pico for a Z.

 

[Lax coach]

I need a couple more kegs to get my pipeline going more consistently. Currently have three of the little 1.75 cornys and the much-unloved (including by me) serving keg. But I'm actually thinking about getting a couple of Pico C kegs (plus the adapter kit) instead of more of the standard ball-lock ones My thought is to do the brewing and primary fermentation in the C kegs, then rack to the ball-locks for carbonation and serving.

Since the C kegs come completely apart and are dishwasher safe, that seemed like a good place to let all the krausen and trub build up. The kegs I serve from typically don't require much scrubbing at all. I also have two PicoFerms, which are natively compatible with the C kegs, so I don't lose anything there. And of course, they're a bit cheaper. It'd be $140 for two C kegs and the adapter kit, vs. $200 for a pair of the standard cornys.

Am I missing anything? Can somebody poke holes in my strategy?

 

[Moe Howard]

Made my first batch and have a question on fermenting. The brew keg dropped about 8-9 degrees after about 24 hours which I would expect but I'm confused how long I should ferment based on the chart in the manual. I'm doing a 6.6% beer, Dead Man Rogue. The keg is sitting in my basement at about 63 degrees. So how long should I ferment this? Appreciate any feedback

 

[Lbarouf]

I need a couple more kegs to get my pipeline going more consistently. Currently have three of the little 1.75 cornys and the much-unloved (including by me) serving keg. But I'm actually thinking about getting a couple of Pico C kegs (plus the adapter kit) instead of more of the standard ball-lock ones My thought is to do the brewing and primary fermentation in the C kegs, then rack to the ball-locks for carbonation and serving.

Since the C kegs come completely apart and are dishwasher safe, that seemed like a good place to let all the krausen and trub build up. The kegs I serve from typically don't require much scrubbing at all. I also have two PicoFerms, which are natively compatible with the C kegs, so I don't lose anything there. And of course, they're a bit cheaper. It'd be $140 for two C kegs and the adapter kit, vs. $200 for a pair of the standard cornys.

Am I missing anything? Can somebody poke holes in my strategy?

I just finished 2 batches using these for the first time. I have to say, I was impressed with the ease of use/cleaning. It's a good idea, if you want to ferment 1 batch at a time. If you want to scale in the multi batch of the same batch, I'd say get a fermenter. A small 7.5Gal would be perfect for 3 or 4 batches, and cost less than 4 pico C kegs. But the idea of using Pico C kegs for fermenting is great. I have 6 kegs today, and do double batches of 3 styles over the week-ends. My serving kegs are 3gal from AEB. My only regret is not having space to place my batches in a conical, this way I could have a pipeline, when kegs would be filled, I could be fermenting the next batches.

Hope it can inspire something frothy, cold and great. ;-)

 

[Lbarouf]

Made my first batch and have a question on fermenting. The brew keg dropped about 8-9 degrees after about 24 hours which I would expect but I'm confused how long I should ferment based on the chart in the manual. I'm doing a 6.6% beer, Dead Man Rogue. The keg is sitting in my basement at about 63 degrees. So how long should I ferment this? Appreciate any feedback

I would wait 2 weeks. I just finished this beer on the fast ferment schedule, it was supposedly done after 9 days at 83F, but it was clearly not done, so I left it 14 days, it's carbing now and the first sip to see how it was, was just fine. Without a tilt or another type of monitor other than the picoferm, i don't see a way to know precisely when it is done.

If you want to test the PicoBrew theory, keep the keg in the fast ferment temp range, use the pico C keg or corny keg with the red pressure relief valve, and wait 10 days. See if it is done. I just wait 14 days personally and not worry about the temperature, as long as it's not extreme of course, and as constant as possible.

 

[Lax coach]

I just finished 2 batches using these for the first time. I have to say, I was impressed with the ease of use/cleaning. It's a good idea, if you want to ferment 1 batch at a time. If you want to scale in the multi batch of the same batch, I'd say get a fermenter. A small 7.5Gal would be perfect for 3 or 4 batches, and cost less than 4 pico C kegs. But the idea of using Pico C kegs for fermenting is great. I have 6 kegs today, and do double batches of 3 styles over the week-ends. My serving kegs are 3gal from AEB. My only regret is not having space to place my batches in a conical, this way I could have a pipeline, when kegs would be filled, I could be fermenting the next batches.

Hope it can inspire something frothy, cold and great. ;-)

Thanks for the info, that's really helpful!