massination
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- Dec 31, 2016
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So I'm posting on here, because I cannot figure out the root cause of an off flavor in my last 4-5 batches. I've been describing it as a bitter/sour taste. And it doesnt go away with age. I thought maybe lacto infection, but all the beers have the same off-ness to it, and they're all very drinkable, but just have an ever persistent tang to them that I want gone and cant figure out.
I thought maybe it was my taste buds going wacky, but i recently had someone over and gave them no background info or warning and asked them to taste a recent batch and tell me if they detected anything off. They said it was really good beer, but it sorta tasted like it had some wine or white grape juice mixed in. So its not just me.
Now some details. Sorry for the longness of the details below, but i figured I'd try to answer all the questions you may ask....
I've been brewing AG BIAB, all lagers lately, full volume mash. Things like mexican lager, american lager, vienna lager. I've been using mostly dry lager yeast - S-189 but i did use some liquid yeast for the mexican. I've had my mill gap set around .030 or less, grinding it pretty fine since I dont have to worry about stuck sparge. For water, I use filtered water. I sent a sample off to be tested a while back, and have been using those results as a basis on how to adjust the water for salts for the style as well as PH adjustments, using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. I chill with a copper immersion chiller outside. The pot lid mostly covering the wort while chilling. I put the chiller in when theres 15 minutes left in the boil in order to sanitize it. And then transfer directly into a sanitized glass carboy with a sanitized funnel. I dont usually completely fill the carboy with starsan, usually a couple quarts, and swish it around a bunch of times while I'm brewing. The carboy gets cleaned after fermentation with OxiClean, which really does a good job getting everything out. I ferment in a temperature controlled mini fridge at the recommended temp (around 55) for a couple weeks till done, then cold crash, and fine with gelatin in primary for a few days before I keg it. Most of the grain I have been using is a bag of pilsner that is over a year old, maybe as old as 2 years old....i just finished it off. But everything i read says grain that old should be fine if stored properly. I've had it in sealed buckets.
Now with all that said - does anything see a place in there where this off flavor could be coming in? One thing I was looking at was maybe its astringency from tannins. Perhaps my grind is too fine and it is grinding the husk up too much and bringing out those tannins. Though, from stuff I've seen online people say that is true and isnt true, with plenty accounts of people saying they grind real fine and have no issues, but with no real evidence that I've seen of people saying their beer was astringent because they ground fine. And seen where people say it can be astringent/tannins from sparging too hot. I dont sparge at all, and my mash temp stays pretty dang consistent. Like starting at 150 and ending at 148-149.
Another place is maybe the water report i sent off a couple years back is no longer valid for my water. I still use the same filter (have changed the elements since then). By the way, this is not a RO filter, its a 3-stage filter that gets all the chlorine out (confirmed) as well as flouride and some other stuff, but it does not take all the salts out. But according to the water profile report, the water I am starting with is pretty soft, so I think the filter is taking most of the stuff out. BUT, i dont test my PH. From everything I have read, the Bru'n Water spreadsheet is extremely accurate, so I have trusted that. I usually aim for around a 5.2-5.4 PH depending on the beer.
Another thought is maybe I have a lot of wild yeast outside and they're getting in during the chilling? I dont have a huge chiller, but i'd say i chill for maybe 30 min to get it down as low as I can (usually down to about 70 degrees) before I stop chilling and transfer to the carboy.
So I dont know, maybe next time I'll try grinding at .039ish gap on my mill and use RO water from the grocery store or something, and see what happens. But does anyone have any other ideas? I would think that the couple quarts of starsan swished around in the carboy a bunch of times should be good enough, but maybe filling it completely is somehow better?
I thought maybe it was my taste buds going wacky, but i recently had someone over and gave them no background info or warning and asked them to taste a recent batch and tell me if they detected anything off. They said it was really good beer, but it sorta tasted like it had some wine or white grape juice mixed in. So its not just me.
Now some details. Sorry for the longness of the details below, but i figured I'd try to answer all the questions you may ask....
I've been brewing AG BIAB, all lagers lately, full volume mash. Things like mexican lager, american lager, vienna lager. I've been using mostly dry lager yeast - S-189 but i did use some liquid yeast for the mexican. I've had my mill gap set around .030 or less, grinding it pretty fine since I dont have to worry about stuck sparge. For water, I use filtered water. I sent a sample off to be tested a while back, and have been using those results as a basis on how to adjust the water for salts for the style as well as PH adjustments, using the Bru'n Water spreadsheet. I chill with a copper immersion chiller outside. The pot lid mostly covering the wort while chilling. I put the chiller in when theres 15 minutes left in the boil in order to sanitize it. And then transfer directly into a sanitized glass carboy with a sanitized funnel. I dont usually completely fill the carboy with starsan, usually a couple quarts, and swish it around a bunch of times while I'm brewing. The carboy gets cleaned after fermentation with OxiClean, which really does a good job getting everything out. I ferment in a temperature controlled mini fridge at the recommended temp (around 55) for a couple weeks till done, then cold crash, and fine with gelatin in primary for a few days before I keg it. Most of the grain I have been using is a bag of pilsner that is over a year old, maybe as old as 2 years old....i just finished it off. But everything i read says grain that old should be fine if stored properly. I've had it in sealed buckets.
Now with all that said - does anything see a place in there where this off flavor could be coming in? One thing I was looking at was maybe its astringency from tannins. Perhaps my grind is too fine and it is grinding the husk up too much and bringing out those tannins. Though, from stuff I've seen online people say that is true and isnt true, with plenty accounts of people saying they grind real fine and have no issues, but with no real evidence that I've seen of people saying their beer was astringent because they ground fine. And seen where people say it can be astringent/tannins from sparging too hot. I dont sparge at all, and my mash temp stays pretty dang consistent. Like starting at 150 and ending at 148-149.
Another place is maybe the water report i sent off a couple years back is no longer valid for my water. I still use the same filter (have changed the elements since then). By the way, this is not a RO filter, its a 3-stage filter that gets all the chlorine out (confirmed) as well as flouride and some other stuff, but it does not take all the salts out. But according to the water profile report, the water I am starting with is pretty soft, so I think the filter is taking most of the stuff out. BUT, i dont test my PH. From everything I have read, the Bru'n Water spreadsheet is extremely accurate, so I have trusted that. I usually aim for around a 5.2-5.4 PH depending on the beer.
Another thought is maybe I have a lot of wild yeast outside and they're getting in during the chilling? I dont have a huge chiller, but i'd say i chill for maybe 30 min to get it down as low as I can (usually down to about 70 degrees) before I stop chilling and transfer to the carboy.
So I dont know, maybe next time I'll try grinding at .039ish gap on my mill and use RO water from the grocery store or something, and see what happens. But does anyone have any other ideas? I would think that the couple quarts of starsan swished around in the carboy a bunch of times should be good enough, but maybe filling it completely is somehow better?
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