Off Flavor Question

[RGillette10]

I've brewed about 5 or 6 batches and I've never had any sanitation issues or anything like that. All my beers have been good. I recently brewed an all-grain irish red/cream ale. I left it in the primary for longer than I should have. Almost 6 weeks. I just never had time to transfer it.

I transferred it to a keg this weekend, and I was planning on letting it sit for a while 2-3 weeks in the keg. When I tasted it, it was not good. Not totally undrinkable, but it had a pretty sharp flavor, almost metallic. I used WL 004 Irish Ale yeast. I'm hoping that this flavor will mellow considerably with a few weeks in the keg. Perhaps more if need be. Is that a reasonable hope?

 

[flars]

Can't really say what might happen without some details on ingredients and the fermentation.

 

[BigFloyd]

Can't really say what might happen without some details on ingredients and the fermentation.

Yes. Especially-

pitch temp?

did you make a starter?

aerate the wort?

fermentation temps?

 

[balazs]

Perhaps carbonic bite from overcarbonation?

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[Lopsy]

The game has changed since everyone has gotten better about controlling variables like mash pH and fermentation temp. So people will be able to help you a lot more with some details. Give us everything you have about your process. And if you don't have a lot written down about what you did, then start taking more data, baby!

My wild guess is either aeration and/or ferm temp.

 

[RGillette10]

I was following this recipe:

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast London Ale 1028
Yeast Starter: Yes
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.047
Final Gravity: 1.011
IBU: 27.1
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 2 weeks @ 65-72
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 4-6 weeks @ 65-72
Tasting Notes: Smooth creamy caramel flavor.

This is my first recipe which I have posted on this forum. Caffrey's was one of my favorite beers in the UK before I moved to the USA. Unfortunately Coors bought the brewery which makes Caffrey's and canceled export to the USA a few years back.

This beer is kind of a hybrid. On CO2 it is a basic English bitter. But add your Nitrogen (beer gas) and you have your creamy tasting Irish ale.

If you have a stout faucet and looking for something lighter than a regular stout I recommend this. I have not had a real Caffrey's for several years, so can not comment on the taste compared to the original, but believe it is pretty similar.

It is very smooth and has a creamy caramel flavor. There is also some fruitiness from the 1028 yeast used.

Ingredients
9lb 8oz Maris Otter
7oz Crystal 60L
3oz Torrified Wheat
2oz Chocolate Malt

0.75oz Northern Brewer 9.7% - 60 mins
0.25oz East Kent Goldings 6.5% - 60 mins

1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast 1028)

Mash for 60 mins at 153

Boil for 60 mins

I substituted flaked wheat for torrified wheat because the LHBS didn't have torrified. I also might have thrown in just a hint of black patent that I had lying around and a little less chocolate. As I already stated, I substituted the WL Irish Ale.

I had my immersion chiller in and got a reading of about 75. I knew that it would cool to 70 on transfer. However, after the transfer, I was getting high readings. Low 80s. I must have had the thermometer on a cold spot in the wort. Now I know what your thinking. I didn't pitch the yeast. I put the fermenter in an ice bath and returned in a few hours. It was down to 70. Pitched. Air temp in my garage is never above 71 and is often closer to 67-68. During the first few days of fermentation, I tried to keep it as close to 65 has possible. I know even at a 71 degree air temp, the fermenter will run hotter during active fermentation. I don't have anything measuring temp on the fermenter because its never been an issue for me.

At the time of tasting, the beer was not carbonated.

 

[RGillette10]

Also, I didn't make a starter because I did not feel one was necessary for this beer.

I always aerate the wort, but I didn't use O2, just the transfer from the kettle to the fermenter at a good height.

I'm in Seattle. Our water is close to RO. I added modest amounts of gypsum and Calcium Chloride.

 

[BigFloyd]

Also, I didn't make a starter because I did not feel one was necessary for this beer.

I always aerate the wort, but I didn't use O2, just the transfer from the kettle to the fermenter at a good height.

I'm in Seattle. Our water is close to RO. I added modest amounts of gypsum and Calcium Chloride.

Assuming decently fresh yeast with no starter, you likely pitched around 85-90 billion cells or about half the number of cells needed to get the pitch rate up to 0.75

At the temps you're describing, that strain probably kicked of some esters, but hopefully not so much as to make it yucky. It's always possible that the underpitching, not much aeration and the moderately warm temps together caused a bit of yeast stress, but that's just speculation.

Before you tasted it, did you burst carb? If so (as already mentioned), you could be tasting some carbonic acid. The good news is that that particular problem fades away in a week or two.

 

[RGillette10]

I did not burst carb.

I will probably taste it every 2 weeks to see if its improving. After three months, I'll dump it.

Let's assume I underpitched: Will the bad flavors mellow?

Assuming a hot fermentation, say 5 degrees out of the recommended range, will the bad flavors mellow?

Assuming I left it on the yeast cake too long, which in my opinion is by far the most likely cause of the off flavors, will the bad flavors mellow over time?

 

[BigFloyd]

Time will tell with regard to the mellowing of off-flavors. Some fade away. Others don't.

Leaving it on the yeast six weeks would be at the bottom of my list of potential causes of your flavor issues.

 

[Gameface]

I highly doubt your problem was leaving it on the yeast for 6 weeks.

It's spring now. You're going to have to be much more careful about fermentation temps. I had several brews under my belt when the temp started to rise outside and I made a couple dumpers before getting temps under control.

Pitch rate is vital to making good beer.

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[RGillette10]

It's spring now. You're going to have to be much more careful about fermentation temps.

I'll have to get myself a calendar or something. Or maybe you can just update me next time the seasons or weather changes in my area. Thanks for the help!

 

[BigFloyd]

I'll have to get myself a calendar or something. Or maybe you can just update me next time the seasons or weather changes in my area. Thanks for the help!

I don't often laugh at sarcasm, but...............

 

[Gameface]

I'll have to get myself a calendar or something. Or maybe you can just update me next time the seasons or weather changes in my area. Thanks for the help!

If you were fermenting in the mid to upper 60s (wort temp) and now you're fermenting in the low 70s then I'd put money on that being the issue.

Keep in mind that sometimes fermentation is more aggressive than other times, even using the same recipe and yeast. And a more active fermentation generates more heat... which causes the fermentation to become more active.

So even though you live somewhere with pretty nice weather year round, a few degrees can really have an impact on the way your beer turns out. Leaving it on the yeast for a couple extra weeks, not so much.