Question regarding lagering

[redrocker652002]

I am not sure if this goes here or not, but here goes. I have mostly done ales and IPA's but with the addition of my new fermentation fridge I want to give a lager or a pilsner a try. I have a recipe that seems pretty simple and I have most of the items needed already. The one thing I am not too sure of is lagering. When it says to lager at let's say 35 degrees, do I transfer to my keg before and lager in the keg? Or can I lager in the fermenter bucket before transferring to the keg or bottles? The recipe I have says to ferment for 3 weeks at 50 degrees and then lager for another 3 weeks at 35. Another question is, it is a 5 gallon batch, and the recipe calls for 2 packets of Safale w34/70. Is two packets needed? I have always just done one. I don't mind buying the second one if needed, just like I said, this is my first try and I am not very familiar with how this all works. Any input is appreciated.

 

[cmac62]

I don't make a lot of lagers, but for your questions I would say cold crash it, then transfer as clean a beer as you can then lager in the keg. #2 Yes you need more yeast for lagers, so use 2 packs if you are fermenting at 50*. Good luck

 

[camonick]

The recipe I have says to ferment for 3 weeks at 50 degrees and then lager for another 3 weeks at 35.

That may be what the recipe says, but you need to do what the particular yeast likes.
I make a lot of lagers. 34/70 is my yeast of choice and I find it performs well at 54-55°. Fermentis states the temperature range as 53-59°. I would suggest allowing fermentation to complete and transfer it to your keg for lagering as long as you like. Without active fermentation using a bucket, I’m not sure I would trust it in there for an extended period of time.
I’m impatient and typically begin drinking my kegged beers after carbonation is complete at about the 2-3 week mark.
2 packets of 34/70 would be best for a 5 gallon batch. I know a lot of folks perform a diacetyl rest with their lagers, but I’ve personally never needed one with 34/70 at the temps above as long as you’re sure fermentation is complete which is typically 2-3 weeks in my experience.

 

[Beerstein]

I recently did my first lager. Used 34/70 and pressure fermented it at >= 80F for about 8 days, then 10 days in a fridge at 50F, then 3 days at 34F. Turned out great.

 

[redrocker652002]

That may be what the recipe says, but you need to do what the particular yeast likes.
I make a lot of lagers. 34/70 is my yeast of choice and I find it performs well at 54-55°. Fermentis states the temperature range as 53-59°. I would suggest allowing fermentation to complete and transfer it to your keg for lagering as long as you like. Without active fermentation using a bucket, I’m not sure I would trust it in there for an extended period of time.
I’m impatient and typically begin drinking my kegged beers after carbonation is complete at about the 2-3 week mark.
2 packets of 34/70 would be best for a 5 gallon batch. I know a lot of folks perform a diacetyl rest with their lagers, but I’ve personally never needed one with 34/70 at the temps above as long as you’re sure fermentation is complete which is typically 2-3 weeks in my experience.

Cool. Thank you. I changed my recipe to ferment at 54-55. I think it said fermentation would take anywhere between 2 to 3 weeks, so my plan is to let it be for 3. I will keg transfer and lager for at least 3 weeks to make sure I give it enough time. I am looking forward to trying new styles now that I have temp control on my fermentation. That opens things up a lot.

Another question just came to mind. Do you put the gas post on during lagering? I would think not, but your reply got me wondering. What is the typical pressure for lagers and what is the proper serving pressure for lagers? And proper serving temp?

 

[camonick]

Do you put the gas post on during lagering? I would think not, but your reply got me wondering. What is the typical pressure for lagers and what is the proper serving pressure for lagers? And proper serving temp?

As soon as my kegs are filled and purged, I apply the CO2. I figure they just as well be carbonating while I wait. I serve all my beers at the same pressure and temperature regardless of style, but that’s just me. I don’t worry about that too much. Some purists will argue that, but I can’t tell the difference between 2.4 and 2.7 volumes of CO2 or a few degrees either.

 

[Beermeister32]

My preferred schedule is to pitch at 48F and let free rise to 50F. Hold at 50F until you are nearing completion, then ramp up about 5F per day and do a D-rest at 66F for a week. I don’t cold crash to avoid suck back.

Transfer at ambient, add ascorbic acid and conditioning charge, purge 15 cycles and let keg carbonate in a cool place in the house for a couple weeks. This also uptakes any stray O2. I then lager at 34F for 90 days. Inject gelatin at about the 60 day point. I serve at 9 PSI, I’m liking the slightly lower 9 PSI these days.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've never seen a primary lager ferment take more than 2 weeks and that's even Doppelbocks. The key is to make sure you're pitching the right amount of yeast. If I were making a 5% ABV pilsner, I'd be pitching 3 packs of rehydrated 34/70 or 4 packs dry sprinkled. 52F for 5 days, then 62 for another 9 days or so. Keg.

Never cold crash in a bucket. It's best to get it into the keg and under a few psi of CO2 before you drop the temp.

 

[camonick]

I'd be pitching 3 packs of rehydrated 34/70 or 4 packs dry sprinkled. 52F for 5 days, then 62 for another 9 days or so.

Is this for 5 gallons?
The published specs on the Fermentis website are— “80 to 120 g/hl at ideally 12°C – 18°C (53.6-64.4°F)”. They don’t differentiate between pitching dry or rehydrated.
If my math is correct, using their formula, you would need approximately 1.5 to just a little over 2 packets of yeast for 5 gallons (19L)
I’m rounding to make the math simple. 100 liters in a hectoliter.
19 liters in 5 gallons.
100/19 =5.3
80/5.3= 15 grams
120/5.3= 22.6 grams
Am I missing something?

 

[redrocker652002]

Great stuff guys, thank you for all the responses. So, in trying to sort thru it all, my thoughts are as follows: Brew day is as normal, mash is at about 146 for 90 mins (this is new to me as well, so any input there is welcomed), sparge to get about 7.5 to 8 gallons of wort (checking the gravity to make sure I am in the ballpark of 1.045 or so), then boil for about 90 minutes and use the hop schedule on the recipe. Post boil gravity should be in the area of 1.050. Bring the wort down to about 55 degrees or so and pitch two packs of yeast. Give the bucket a shake to get the yeast mixed in a bit and in the fermenting fridge it goes at about 53 to 54 degrees. Checking gravity after about a week and see where we are. FG on the recipe says it should be at about 1.010. Once I am close, raise the temp on the fridge to about 60 or so and let stand for 2 or 3 days. After that, drop the temp to 35 and wait another few days. After that, move to a keg using gravity closed transfer and put the keg back in the fridge at 35 degrees and let stand for at least 3 weeks. Does that sound about right? I am excited to give this a try and add another style to my arsenal so to speak. LOL

 

[Beerstein]

Great stuff guys, thank you for all the responses. So, in trying to sort thru it all, my thoughts are as follows: Brew day is as normal, mash is at about 146 for 90 mins (this is new to me as well, so any input there is welcomed), sparge to get about 7.5 to 8 gallons of wort (checking the gravity to make sure I am in the ballpark of 1.045 or so), then boil for about 90 minutes and use the hop schedule on the recipe. Post boil gravity should be in the area of 1.050. Bring the wort down to about 55 degrees or so and pitch two packs of yeast. Give the bucket a shake to get the yeast mixed in a bit and in the fermenting fridge it goes at about 53 to 54 degrees. Checking gravity after about a week and see where we are. FG on the recipe says it should be at about 1.010. Once I am close, raise the temp on the fridge to about 60 or so and let stand for 2 or 3 days. After that, drop the temp to 35 and wait another few days. After that, move to a keg using gravity closed transfer and put the keg back in the fridge at 35 degrees and let stand for at least 3 weeks. Does that sound about right? I am excited to give this a try and add another style to my arsenal so to speak. LOL

I like dry beers. 146 is a win for me