Obnoxious Football Trash Talk Thread

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Oh, I see Cape. The move from leather helmets to plastic ones is trans-formative technology but notebook to video computer analysis is not so much.
 
olllllo said:
I think you have a 1980's idea about what video is. They don't haul out a camera and then slap a cassette into a VHS anymore. Have you seen what they do with video?

It's essentially a data dump of their playbook and their signals that they can write algorithms against using million dollar video computing stuff. It's not stealing them and deciphering them. It's flat out just getting them at an orders of magnitude faster than the ol' notebook.

That's why there is a restriction. It changes the game if 1 team has the edge AND it also changes the game if everyone has the same edge.

Of course, you must have rationalized that Goodell just hates technology or cameras or something.
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Whoa, that was weird... I wasn't expecting you to continue clinging on and blowing it way out of proportion at all. :rolleyes:
 
olllllo said:
Oh, I see Cape. The move from leather helmets to plastic ones is trans-formative technology but notebook to video computer analysis is not so much.
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Who said computer analysis was against the rules? A couple of guys taking notes can just as easily get an intern, probably workin' for free, to simply plug in the down, distance, time on the clock, formation, signals and then the ultimate play.

What in that is against the rules?? Besides none of it.

So your theory is that the Pats have some super top secret, CIA, video analysis system that was spitting out play books??

Really? C'mon... are you typing that with a straight face?
 
NFL became more like todays game and gained broad popularity in the 50s. Before that nobody cared that much as it was all about college ball. Main difference once you started heading into the 50s-70s to todays game was less rules to protect the players making it more dangerous. Leading with head, body slamming, kicking, spitting, eye poking and the like. Defense could actually defend and QB's were just another player to hit (didn't wear dresses).
 
olllllo said:
What your explanation for why there is video ban then?
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I have no idea... I think it's a stupid rule since I don't think there is any real purpose. It is not to avoid stealing signals since it is well documented that stealing signals is something every team does as a matter of course and there is no rule explicitly against it.

I also don't buy the argument that it is significantly easier with a video camera.... It HAS to have some benefit or else the Pats wouldn't have done it but I don't see that incremental benefit being so significant that the Pats deserve the insane amount of vitriol that people focus on them... and the CONSTANT.. four years later... CONSTANT "cheater" label reeks of someone just plain ignorant to the reality of the situation.

I'll ask you seriously... what other aspect of all of this is there other than the Pats used a camera instead of a notebook? I'm assuming you're going to say there isn't one because now you're debating me on how significant the benefit actually COULD be.

I think you're really reaching.
 
Cape Brewing said:
LOL... ok. That works
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Hey I don't have to produce "facts" for this. It is the history of the NFL. Plain and simple. You just decided not to accept it simply because you don't like the fact that there are teams out there besides the Steelers with more championships than the Pats. You don't like it, so in your own little mindset it doesn't count. Sounds like you have the same attitude as the coach of your favorite team- if you don't like the rules, they don't really apply to you.
 
Yup.. you nailed it. I HATE that there are more teams out there with more "championships".

OOOOOOOOO... (shaking my fist in the air)

DAAAAAAAAMN those teams!!! Damn those teams to hell!!!

Sonofa... see? Now I'm not gonna sleep tonight I'm so worked up over it!!!

LOL!!
 
Cape Brewing said:
I also don't buy the argument that it is significantly easier with a video camera.... It HAS to have some benefit or else the Pats wouldn't have done it but I don't see that incremental benefit being so significant that the Pats deserve the insane amount of vitriol that people focus on them... and the CONSTANT.. four years later... CONSTANT "cheater" label reeks of someone just plain ignorant to the reality of the situation.
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i don't think many (at least I don't) people bring it up until patriot fans start saying they're so good, when they were clearly cheating during the time they were good.

while I'm not part of this piece of our business, my company is heavy into the video security industry, and i talk to one of the main researchers in the security department. you'd be shocked to find out how easy it is to do identification, data processing, and analytics with a simple video feed.
 
great... they cheated. I'm done debating it with you. You're a moron. If ollllo wants to continue with this ridiculous battle, great... at least he has a intelligent thought in his head. I'm not really buying his story and I think he's reaching but you're a moron who just regurgitates "But they done cheated!" over and over and over again.

Sure... they cheated. There. Feel better?
 
Cape.
People are offering you up the Cheater label in direct proportion to your denial of some basic facts.

I tell you why and video data mining IS powerful not COULD and I provide evidence that the military is using NFL technology and somehow that's not sufficient. You argument is that you can't provide any alternative that explains the ban.

Let me point to another flaw in your argument. You argue that none of this matters because it's not against the rule to steal signs. Your assumption is that all methods of stealing signs are the same in terms of efficacy, efficiency and impact.

Is it against the rules to tackle a player so hard that he has to leave the game? No. Not explicitly. Was it against the rules to use your leather helmet as a spear. No. It wasn't very effective and the cost could often outweigh the benefits. Now that helmets are harder, lighter (technology) that particular spearing method (methods are technology, look it up) is against the rules. It's effective, efficient and has more impact.

I'll wager that a good deal of the note taking method of stealing signals is fairly unreliable and speculative or extremely situational and therefore of little concern to the league. The rule is, you are not allowed to steal signs using a particular technology. It's because that technology is invariably 1000's of times more effective and reliable than taking notes.

Go back to your company and ask if they want to go back to the steno pool and a room full of adding machine actuaries.
 
Cape Brewing said:
great... they cheated. I'm done debating it with you. You're a moron. If ollllo wants to continue with this ridiculous battle, great... at least he has a intelligent thought in his head. I'm not really buying his story and I think he's reaching but you're a moron who just regurgitates "But they done cheated!" over and over and over again.

Sure... they cheated. There. Feel better?
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i have plenty of intelligent thoughts, i use most of them to do my work, which i'm at.

i don't have that much time to devote to your lack of morality.
 
I'm not a golfer, but my understanding is that it is one of the most technology banning sports out there. A difference in grams and millimeters and ball dimple patterns.

Incremental changes to the naked eye, but apparently hugely impactful.

hmm impactful is not a word. You get my drift though.
 
olllllo said:
I'm not a golfer, but my understanding is that it is one of the most technology banning sports out there. A difference in grams and millimeters and ball dimple patterns.

Incremental changes to the naked eye, but apparently hugely impactful.

hmm impactful is not a word. You get my drift though.
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Yeah, they're banning production of a certain grove on irons after this year (I think?). It allows for so much spin that you can drop the ball and have it stick on the green.....they've deemed it an unfair advantage, which I find odd because everyone has access to it...well, except for the one Mickelson had holed away that was made back in the 1980s and was banned...but that's a different story.
 
Banned by the NBA, since they apparently actually DO increase a player's vertical!

8b62cfe1487db68ed69dcd380681aeea.jpg
 
olllllo said:
I'm not a golfer, but my understanding is that it is one of the most technology banning sports out there. A difference in grams and millimeters and ball dimple patterns.

Incremental changes to the naked eye, but apparently hugely impactful.

hmm impactful is not a word. You get my drift though.
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I understand your point perfectly ollllo. Like I was saying, there had to be some sort of incremental benefit or the Pats wouldn't have done it. What I don't buy, and please... can we spare the "Oooooo you're in denial" crap? If Moto wants to spew stupidity, sweet, let him, but we're at least trying to be serious about this (which... in itself is kinda stupid since it doesn't matter at all and neither of us are going to change each other's mind). I'm not in denial... I lived through the headache that this has been every waking freakin' minute of when this all went down and have read just about every word written on the topic. (except for the NFL's anti-trust exemption apparently).... and I don't buy that what they did warrants the level of hatred that people have towards them or the constant harping on it. That's it. That's my only point.

You wanna call them a cheater? Great. Call them a cheater. But again, I don't understand why no one calls the 49ers cheaters every time their name comes up... or the Broncos. I'm convinced people have this insane hang up about the Pats because... as I've been saying... they don't understand what actually took place.

I think if you ask the average fan, "is it legal to steal signals", they would say, "HELL NO!! That's why them Patriots are such scum bags!! They had the other team's defensive signals right in the locker room!!!". And when you tell them it isn't illegal to steal signs, their brains kinda lock up and they just call them cheaters over and over again without really understanding why they're doing it.

If someone wants to say, "Those Patriots are scum bags because they got some huge benefit out of using a camera instead of a note book!!!" Then... fine... while I don't really buy it and according to the article I linked to earlier... no one in the NFL really thought they were getting any tangible benefit... at least they would have their story straight and we could agree to disagree.... but hearing the same misinformed stuff get spewed over and over and over and over and over and over and over... like Bird said the other day... it's gets REALLY OLD.

It's like someone calling you Rod instead of Rob and then giggling like that's a funny joke... you would laugh it off the first time. Now have someone do that every time you went to the men's room... for four years. At some point you'll want to stab that person in the effin eyeball with a pitchfork.
 
AZ_IPA said:
Yeah, they're banning production of a certain grove on irons after this year (I think?). It allows for so much spin that you can drop the ball and have it stick on the green.....they've deemed it an unfair advantage, which I find odd because everyone has access to it...well, except for the one Mickelson had holed away that was made back in the 1980s and was banned...but that's a different story.
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They banned them last year for pro's and there's debate about how much it(the old grooves) actually helps. I can tell you that on a golf course, I need all the help I can get. I can also tell you that if you can stop a golf ball on a dime or get backspin on it from a hundred yards you are a pretty good golfer to begin with.
 
I'm not a Pats fan but I think we all know why there is such hatred, it's jealousy. Every other fan in the league loves to look at a dynasty and make excuses for why their team isn't one. In this case, because they cheated. I really don't like the Pats at all, I'm jealous of the rings, and I hate all the fans that have jumped on their bandwagon. That being said, congrats on the championships, I think they were earned.
 
rjwhite41 said:
and I hate all the fans that have jumped on their bandwagon. .
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... and just for the record... born in Rhodey.. lived in Mass since college and got on the waiting list for Pats season tickets as soon as I could realistically afford them which was five years before the first Super Bowl win (I was 23)
 
I remember 7th Grade, wearing my Andre Tippett shirt to school during a 1-15 season. Rod Rust, head coach. Saving a videotape of the last game of the season, a game we lost to the NY Giants 13-10, because that was pretty much the best that they had done all season. Convincing myself that Hugh Millen was am above-average quarterback. Ain't n bandwagon here.
 
olllllo said:
So that's your plan?
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no... Assuming I actually ran into you (which I'm guessing will almost be hard NOT to) I was going to come up with a really serious face and say something like, "OH MY GOD... Rob?? ROB from the Ignite presentation!! I SAW you there!! I was in the audience! Wow, I gotta tell ya... I am a HUUUUUGE FAN. You looked AMAZING up on stage."

and just keep playing it up creepier and creepier until you either caught on or walked away totally freaked out..
 
I don't much care about the cheating, just like I don't care about anabolic steroids and HGH. I learned long ago in the military "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', and if you get caught cheatin', you ain't tryin' hard enough."
 
Joemama474 said:
I don't much care about the cheating, just like I don't care about anabolic steroids and HGH. I learned long ago in the military "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin', and if you get caught cheatin', you ain't tryin' hard enough."
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I personally don't agree with that philosophy. It may be a good idea in the military, but not in the rest of the world, IMHO. To each his own, though.
 
Last thing I'm sayin' on the topic and hopefully we can get back to normal trash talk...

I'm not "proud" of what the Pats did in any way and I think Belichick was a complete and total a-hole for knowingly breaking a rule he was specifically reminded not to break. I DO think it was a big deal that they did it and I DO think it was a serious Ef-up on Belichick's part... BUT... I also don't think what they truly did deserves anywhere close to the venom they still get from other fans and if you want to accuse me of being in denial or whatever else, go ahead... don't care.... I have ZERO issues with the banners hanging up in Gillette stadium and don't think what they did was the reason for any of those CHAMPIONSHIPS. If you want to disagree.... great.. everyone can have an opinion... all I have been asking is that you get the facts straight before forming it.
 
I can see that... the Pack looks good. How many games did they lose with Rodgers out? (honestly don't know)... what seed would they have been if they had won those games? Well... let's be honest, they still would have lost to the Pats but...
 
I never accused anyone here of being bandwagoner. I'm just saying I hate the sheer volume of bandwagon fans that follow the Pats, Colts, and Saints that just weren't around before they started winning. Speaking of which I used know a lot of Cardinal fans a couple of years ago, I wonder what happened to them. Oh I know, their probably wearing Packer jerseys right now.
 

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