New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[couchsending]

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I used 12 oz in a 5 gallon batch and didn’t get what I wanted out of the hop.

I will have to try Sabro some time.

Be careful. Sabro is THE most potent hop I’ve ever used and I’m pretty sure I’ve used em all. Or at least all the crazy aroma hops.

It smells better out of the bag than even the best Galaxy I’ve ever had. However in large quantities the wood/cedar note gets really strong. I want to brew a Sabro beer with only an ounce or two in the dry hop and see how potent it is. I think you can literally use half as much as even Citra or Denali or mosaic. It’s nuts how strong it is.

 

[Sbe2]

Be careful. Sabro is THE most potent hop I’ve ever used and I’m pretty sure I’ve used em all. Or at least all the crazy aroma hops.

It smells better out of the bag than even the best Galaxy I’ve ever had. However in large quantities the wood/cedar note gets really strong. I want to brew a Sabro beer with only an ounce or two in the dry hop and see how potent it is. I think you can literally use half as much as even Citra or Denali or mosaic. It’s nuts how strong it is.

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

 

[AnttiLeh]

Hmmph, my NEIPA took 2 days to start bubbling and i had to give it a good shake to start it.
What do you guys think, should i put my dry hop now like in recipe (2-3 days after ferment) or wait 2-3 days more
because its started to bubble last night?

 

[Dgallo]

Hmmph, my NEIPA took 2 days to start bubbling and i had to give it a good shake to start it.
What do you guys think, should i put my dry hope now like in recipe (2-3 after ferment) or wait 2-3 days more
because its started to bubble last night?

If youre trying to go for the “biotransfermation” dryhop then yeah go now(which only a handful of Ale strains can do to certain hop oils anyway.. it’s pointless in my opinion but to each their own) If your hopping early to eliminate the oxidation component, then wait until fermentation is almost over.

 

[couchsending]

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

I have done that combo and even at smaller quantities the Sabro still stood out. The brewers I’ve talked to that have used it and who’s beers I really like say no more than 15–20% of the total hop bill should be Sabro.

 

[beervoid]

I have done that combo and even at smaller quantities the Sabro still stood out. The brewers I’ve talked to that have used it and who’s beers I really like say no more than 15–20% of the total hop bill should be Sabro.

Could you describe the most prominent flavors you get from it?

 

[couchsending]

Could you describe the most prominent flavors you get from it?

It smells more like an Australian hop than anything from the US. It’s insanely tropical. In lower amounts it adds a really cool tropical note and an interesting coconut flavor/aroma. However when you go with too much of it the coconut turns into cedar almost. It gets really woody.

 

[Genuine]

Just found it interesting that Treehouse's latest beer "Spring" claims to use only 2-Row and Dextrin Malt for it so after my planned batch of NEIPA, I'm going to see how it goes with 70% 2-Row, 15% Oats and 15% Carapils. I know Brulosophy did an xBeermnt on the Biotrans dry hop vs traditional however I believe the grist has a lot to do with being a vehicle for all of those hop oils and flavor compounds.

 

[couchsending]

Just found it interesting that Treehouse's latest beer "Spring" claims to use only 2-Row and Dextrin Malt for it so after my planned batch of NEIPA, I'm going to see how it goes with 70% 2-Row, 15% Oats and 15% Carapils. I know Brulosophy did an xBeermnt on the Biotrans dry hop vs traditional however I believe the grist has a lot to do with being a vehicle for all of those hop oils and flavor compounds.

There’s no wheat or oats in any of their hoppy beers, except Snow.

 

[Dgallo]

There’s no wheat or oats in any of their hoppy beers, except Snow.

Could you post your reference that shows their grain bills. I’ve never found anything other then extremely vague information from them saying “assortments of pale malts” or “British malts”

 

[couchsending]

Could you post your reference that shows their grain bills. I’ve never found anything other then extremely vague information from them saying “assortments of pale malts” or “British malts”

Nate has stated it on Twitter.

 

[NickC]

This is my latest batch, the one we think may be oxidized. I will say the flavor is beginning to round out after almost 2 weeks in the keg, but I also added a last minute citra keg hop. After 3 days carbing the beer was lacking any sort of flavor so I removed it, depressurized the keg, and added 2 oz at room temp for 36-48 hours.

 

[SRJHops]

This is my latest batch, the one we think may be oxidized. I will say the flavor is beginning to round out after almost 2 weeks in the keg, but I also added a last minute citra keg hop. After 3 days carbing the beer was lacking any sort of flavor so I removed it, depressurized the keg, and added 2 oz at room temp for 36-48 hours.

View attachment 619357

Doesn't look too oxidized to me. I bottle mine, but I have found they taste best after 5 or 6 weeks in the bottle. I think it takes a while for the hops to blend together... Seems like it might be the same for kegging?

 

[NickC]

Doesn't look too oxidized to me. I bottle mine, but I have found they taste best after 5 or 6 weeks in the bottle. I think it takes a while for the hops to blend together... Seems like it might be the same for kegging?

Possibly. But do yours go from flavorless to juice bomb? I’ve had plenty batches that have stayed looking like this and flavorless. Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. Currently, I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average - halfish whirlpool, halfish single dry hop. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

 

[SRJHops]

Possibly. But does it go from flavorless to juice bomb? Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

I usually try mine after 1 week of carbing, and while they aren't totally flavorless, they aren't very tasty yet. After 2 weeks it's better, and after 5-6 weeks I am finally getting really nice flavor and aroma. My previous batch, with 18 ounces of hops for a 6-gallon batch, was my best yet -- it was getting closer to my goal of tasting like King Sue from Toppling Goliath.

My latest 6-gallon batch only has 14 ounces of hops, because everyone keeps telling me that less is more... The jury is still out, though it does seem to be on a good path in terms of flavor (I used Galaxy, Citra, Mosaic, and Simcoe) -- I'll know for sure in another few weeks!

I am still learning about water, and I tried the 2:1 Cl to So ratio for my latest batch (it ended up 147 cl to 87 so) that is carbonating. I can say that so far I don't notice any change in mouthfeel (or softness) from the water, and I did detect a slight chemical taste (which now seems to be fading). For my next batch, I am going to ditch the high Cl and reverse it, going for a West Coast IPA water profile to make the hops pop, so 2:1 So to Cl. Maybe the next one will be balanced between the two...

I do try for 5.4 mash ph, using the water calculator for the chemical additions, but I don't measure actual (I didn't get the ph meter I had on my X-mas wish list).

But I feel you on the punch! Maybe that's what we are ALL chasing?! I do believe it comes from heavy whirlpool additions and then late dry hopping. Not sure about the biotrans addition, but I figure two dry hop additions can't hurt, so I do it.

Now, as to the amount of hops, the types, and the ratios for hot and cold side additions... well, that's up for so much debate and experimentation! Right now I split 50-50 for hot and cold side hops.

The processes I am most interested in now are the ratios and amount of hops people are using for hot and cold side. I'd love to hear from people who do, say, 70% hot side and 30% dry hop, or the reverse!

I am also interested in the length and temps for hop stands. The latest Janish recipe seems to suggest that long hop stands are not necessary, and stands under 185 aren't necessary either. That is different from what I previously read and what a lot of people do... Ah, conflicting advice -- that's what makes this fun, right?

UPDATE: After 3 weeks in the bottle I am now noticing the softness from the 2:1 Cl to So adjustment. I wasn't expecting it, but I tried a bottle last night and was really struck by how soft it felt. Now, I am not personally all that interested in that aspect of this style, so I still plan to reverse the ratio for my next batch, but I do think it's cool how much the water profile can affect the beer. As for the taste, the chemical taste has receded, and the hop flavor is good, but at this point I think all the 14 ounces did was reduce the flavor -- so I think I'll go back to 18 ounces next time, and maybe even experiment with some of it being cryo.

 

[leesmith]

Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

Please post a recipe and process in detail.

 

[Dgallo]

Possibly. But does it go from flavorless to juice bomb? Something is up. One thing I haven’t explored is PH. I start from RO and add my CaCL and Gypsum 2:1 ratio, but aside from that it’s your standard grist with 12-14oz hops on average. Color and mouthfeel are both acceptable, but can’t get that punch!

Instead of focusing on the ratio of what your adding to your water, you should be focusing on the ratio of the individual minerals your adjusting for..., in your case you’re talking about chloride to sulfate ratio. But remember 2:1 could be 40ppm to 20ppm. Much different beer than 180ppm to 90ppm

 

[nick sekerak]

I also use RO water and when inputting my water report using bru'n water i have about a 5.0 PH so its a little low, i shoot for 5.3 normally. Thats using a similar grain bill to the OP recipe. You may want to add some baking soda to up your PH depending on how you grain bill/water is.

 

[NickC]

Please post a recipe and process in detail.

 

[NickC]

Instead of focusing on the ratio of what your adding to your water, you should be focusing on the ratio of the individual minerals your adjusting for..., in your case you’re talking about chloride to sulfate ratio. But remember 2:1 could be 40ppm to 20ppm. Much different beer than 180ppm to 90ppm

Understand. I target 150:75

 

[nick sekerak]

My last batch i tried 295 ppm Sulfate & 164 ppm CaCl and it was better then 120:120. I think i will be trying 75:150 next to figure out what tastes best with my recipe.

 

[Dgallo]

Understand. I target 150:75

You’re fine there. I’m a firm believer that a healthy and proper fermentation is one of the most important parts in the final presentation of a NE. Gettting that clean desired peachie ester profile can elevate the aroma and flavor so much

 

[nick sekerak]

i noticed off the bat your mash seems high to me, i have been using 153* and been working for me. I have tried 149-156 but 153 is the best results i think for my recipe. You mashing in higher would only make it seem sweeter.

 

[NickC]

You’re fine there. I’m a firm believer that a healthy and proper fermentation is one of the most important parts in the final presentation of a NE. Gettting that clean desired peachie ester profile can elevate the aroma and flavor so much

Yeah, I’ve seen your approach to fermenting. I may try to ferment a little higher to try to throw some more esters.

 

[leesmith]

View attachment 619375

A lot of different grain there.
And lactose.
And sugar.

I digress.

Try cold crashing before dry hopping. Finish fermenting...crash for two days...warm up a bit and dry hop.

 

[NickC]

i noticed off the bat your mash seems high to me, i have been using 153* and been working for me. I have tried 149-156 but 153 is the best results i think for my recipe. You mashing in higher would only make it seem sweeter.

Yea I was trying to finish sweeter with a little more body. OG was lower than I was hoping for so the yeast worked it down to 1.013.

 

[NickC]

A lot of different grain there.
And lactose.
And sugar.

I digress.

Try cold crashing before dry hopping. Finish fermenting...crash for two days...warm up a bit and dry hop.

Is it really? I’ve got to say I’ve seen much more. I know it’s not necessary but it gives a little more than just the straight 2-row and wheat/oats. The dextrose/lactose were late adjustments.

Will do on the crash/ferment.

 

[Dgallo]

I mash high 155. My goal is to finish at 1.016. I think it’s great for NE IPAS and benefit the flavor and body

 

[SRJHops]

So, on a related tangent, I was wondering about why my bottle conditioned beers get so much better over time. Turns out that bottle conditioning has advantages over force carbonating. The yeast scrubs the oxygen from the bottle, and the beer keeps evolving and mixing the hops. Interesting stuff, for those who bottle...

"there are distinct advantages to bottle conditioning that are harder to derive from force-carbonated beer that may also have its yeast filtered out, killed through pasteurization, or present but in too-small a quantity to make any contribution."

"The real advantage in bottle conditioning...comes from the activity of the yeast, not the CO2 they produce. First, in moving through their life cycle and fermenting sugar, the yeast also remove something else from their environment: oxygen. Oxygen is a real enemy of beer, accelerating staling and adding off-flavors, and bottle conditioned beers have a living advantage in the bottle that will take up small amounts of residual oxygen that may have been picked up in the packaging process (from the air in the tubing used to transfer into the bottle or oxygen in the head space air within the bottle itself)."

"leaving living yeast in the bottle means that the overall flavor of the beer can continue to evolve and change in subtle ways. Beers that will be aged for some length of time can develop, with the help of live yeast, mature flavors that can’t otherwise form."

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/its-alive-bottle-conditioned-beer

 

[Dgallo]

So, on a related tangent, I was wondering about why my bottle conditioned beers get so much better over time. Turns out that bottle conditioning has advantages over force carbonating. The yeast scrubs the oxygen from the bottle, and the beer keeps evolving and mixing the hops. Interesting stuff, for those who bottle...

"there are distinct advantages to bottle conditioning that are harder to derive from force-carbonated beer that may also have its yeast filtered out, killed through pasteurization, or present but in too-small a quantity to make any contribution."

"The real advantage in bottle conditioning...comes from the activity of the yeast, not the CO2 they produce. First, in moving through their life cycle and fermenting sugar, the yeast also remove something else from their environment: oxygen. Oxygen is a real enemy of beer, accelerating staling and adding off-flavors, and bottle conditioned beers have a living advantage in the bottle that will take up small amounts of residual oxygen that may have been picked up in the packaging process (from the air in the tubing used to transfer into the bottle or oxygen in the head space air within the bottle itself)."

"leaving living yeast in the bottle means that the overall flavor of the beer can continue to evolve and change in subtle ways. Beers that will be aged for some length of time can develop, with the help of live yeast, mature flavors that can’t otherwise form."

https://beerconnoisseur.com/articles/its-alive-bottle-conditioned-beer

All those positives are really a stretch.... and would only pertain to people who don’t use proper practices to eliminate oxygen.

 

[SRJHops]

All those positives are really a stretch.... and would only pertain to people who don’t use proper practices to eliminate oxygen.

Quotes are from the article, not me. He believes the active yeast plays a significant role in enhancing the flavor, in addition to scrubbing O2.

At the very least, if a homebrewer takes the other steps (like bottling from primary), it suggests that kegging does not have an advantage over bottling. It is just a choice.

 

[leesmith]

Is it really? I’ve got to say I’ve seen much more. I know it’s not necessary but it gives a little more than just the straight 2-row and wheat/oats. The dextrose/lactose were late adjustments.

I’m just a simple person.
Hard for me to tell what’s providing what flavors and textures if it’s too complicated.

 

[marchuk96]

Quotes are from the article, not me. He believes the active yeast plays a significant role in enhancing the flavor, in addition to scrubbing O2.

At the very least, if a homebrewer takes the other steps (like bottling from primary), it suggests that kegging does not have an advantage over bottling. It is just a choice.

I would have to believe that that would be in reference to the malt aspect of the beer and not the hops...not to mention that the eventual flock of the yeast in the bottle would pull down alot of your hop flavor down with it...and I'm also pretty sure no one is aging there n.e's in bottles for any extended period of time for flavors to develop

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I never cold crashed because I was worried about suck back/oxidation. I've begun fermenting in kegs my last 5 batches and now can easily cold crash, and I've noticed my flavor/aroma seems enhanced when I crash, then transfer off the yeast and dry hop. Will be my SOP going forward. I've read various articles theorizing that yeast floccing will strip out dry hop oils. YMMV

 

[ttuato]

Looks great! Could you share your water addition totals for Ca, Cl, and So? The OP has a couple different water profiles, depending on which one you look at. I think one was close to 50-50 Cl to So, while another one favored the Cl a bit.

Been thinking of trying Strata. What do you think of it?

I am just getting caught up after a week or two off so forgive me if this has been addressed. In my opinion - Strata is on par with Citra, Galaxy, Mosaic, Simcoe. It is the next "cheater" hop. (Similar to Galaxy it is best in dryhop only - whirlpool is meh)

 

[ttuato]

Agree that it has been covered... Just wondering if anyone out there hops at closer to 3 or 4 ounces per gallon. It seems that rate might be getting me closer to the flavor of Toppling Goliath beers and the best of the best...

What is ultimately tough here is that some folks swear as little as 6 or 8 ounces is plenty. Is their beer tasty? Sure. But is it as good as the best NEIPAs?

3-4oz/gal is TOTAL hops not just whirlpool or dryhop. I am at 2.5 - 3 total. Sapwood Cellars is at 1.2oz kettle & 2.1 oz dryhop / gal. These guys are the homebrew/science based NEIPA gurus.

 

[ttuato]

This beer just got 3rd out of 105 entries in the Reuben’s Hop Idol comp. haven’t received a score sheet back yet. It’s good but a few tweaks definitely would have made it better. This has been in the keg for 5 weeks with 10 of those days being at 31*. Permanent haze stability and no loss in aroma or hop impact. Below is the recipe with all processes laid out if anyone cares. Including the subtle tweaks to make it better.

6 gallons into the FV

1.062
10# Rahr 2 Row
4# Admiral Maltings Gallagher Pale
12oz Weyermann Carafoam
5oz Honey Malt
4oz Acidulated
Imperial Tartan yeast

Mash pH 5.34
Sparge pH 5.3

Water Profile:
Ca: 85
Mg: 6
Na: 30
So4: 155
Cl: 86.7

RO water. Salts added to Mash and sparge except sparge gypsum which was added to kettle.


75 min @149 (this was a mistake)
30 min @ 162

Kettle Full pH 5.4
2ml lactic @ 60
3ml lactic @ FO

90 minute Boil
4ml hop shot @ 60
1oz Calypso @ 10
2oz Southern Passion @ FO (200f)
2oz Galaxy @ FO (200f)
1oz Nugget @ 170
WP 20
PH into FV 5.06

BTB in Mash
1/2 tab whirlfloc in kettle
1 servomyces capsule

Added the hops at FO but instantly cooled to 170 with immersion chiller. Added Nugget at 170. WP for 20.

Targeted an est .75mil/ml/*plato
2 min O2 at .5ml/sec



Pitched 2/5 @ 62, fermented 66, raised to 70 on day 4 or 5.

I attach the pressure transfer fitting that’s hooked up to Co2 on a manifold for the last 1-2 Plato of fermentation. It helps to maintain positive pressure when soft cooling.

Cooled to 60 on day 6 after forced diacetyl test.

Left for 24 hours at 60.

Pulled as much yeast as possible. Tartan floccs really well so it was a ton of yeast and the beer was very clear.

Dry Hop:
5oz Southern Passion
2oz Galaxy
2oz Sabro

Just pull the pressure transfer piece and pour em in with a funnel. Attach the pressure transfer piece again and purge the head space a few times. Leave with 2.5 psi head pressure.

3 days at 60*

Cool to 45 for 36 hours.

Transfer to an O2 purged keg. Carbed at 31* for 10 days.

Issue with the beer was the mash temp. I’ve struggled to get tartan to attenuate in the past. I was targeting 1.014 and got 1.0095. The resulting beer was a little too dry and the water profiles/bitterness were out of balance. Also only half the dry hops even made it into the beer. I have the SS brewtech conicals and so often a pile of the hops get lodged into the cooling coil and never make it into the beer. Hop flavor suffered a bit. So a little more hop flavor and a little more body and this would be pretty spot on. The Southern Passion hops also aren’t that potent. I wouldn’t make it again with them but they weren’t horrible. Sabro and Galaxy are so strong they over power everything anyways.

View attachment 618680

Agree Southern Passion has not been impressive. With a blend of just SA hops it might be okay but with any standard NEIPA hop it is easily ivershadowed.

 

[ttuato]

Have you dared to use Galaxy, Vic Secret, and Sabro in one batch?

I have a galaxy, sabro, mosaic in the queue. Those are top three most potent to me. I will report back it will be a few weeks though as I just put two in the fermentors.

 

[beervoid]

View attachment 619375

I think your lack of punch can be blamed on the transfer problem on day 8.
I messed up a batch one time cause I had a tiny leak in my transfer line.

 

[ryanm8]

I think there may be some truth to yeast bringing down hop oils when dropping, based on my personal observations. But if you don't cold crash and ferment on a 10 day schedule, your beer will still have plenty of yeast in suspension.

I just use a large glass and get all the yeast on the bottom of the bottle into the glass when drinking. I find it adds more flavor to the beer. The 1318 yeast has a nice fruity flavor.

For an imperial stout, I don't want the yeast. But for NEIPA's I think it improves the flavor.

I want to try dropping the yeast before dry hopping next time to see the difference in flavor. That's what makes this fun